Ellie Nieves - 9/11 Testimony Of A Girl From The Bronx

Ellie Nieves is a lawyer and is the founder of the Women's Leadership Institute. She is passionate about her faith in Christ and is purposeful about putting her faith to work as a lawyer and as an entrepreneur. 

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Transcript

Jason: 0:01

Welcome to the Biblical Leadership at Work podcast. I'm your host, Jason Woodard. In this month's episode, we will meet Ellie Vez, an attorney in the insurance industry, and a true road warrior with over a million miles flown on Delta. She's a mature follower of Christ with an incredible testimony, including a firsthand experience watching the events of nine 11 unfold. Ellie shares how she strives to honor Christ and her work, and offers some excellent practical guidance for believers in the workplace. I hope you'll be as challenged and inspired as I was by our conversation. Now, let's meet Ellie. Okay. Well, sister, uh, Ellie Nevis is joining me on the podcast today, and I am excited to get to know you and have the audience do the same. So thank you for, uh, coming on the show.

Ellie: 0:50

Jason, thank you for inviting me. Looking forward to the conversation.

Jason: 0:53

Yeah, me too. Uh, we always start off with, uh, kind of a, a background review. So tell us a little bit about how the Lord has taken you from outta school, whatever that was to your career today. So yeah, walk us through. How he's gotten you to where you're at and what you're up to now.

Ellie: 1:10

up to now. Sure. So I grew up in New York City. I went to, uh, Fordham University for undergraduate, where I majored in, um, communications and peace and justice studies. Then I went on to law school. From there, I went to the Elizabeth Hobbes School of Law at Pace University. And I, uh, focused on civil rights law. And then, um, a few years later, uh, after being in the corporate world, I actually returned to school and got my MBA over at NYU Stern School of Business, and I focused on global business and leadership.

Jason: 1:44

And that was all still in New York when you were for your education.

Ellie: 1:47

So, uh, the MBA was a little later on. I was already established in my career and I ended up going back because, um, you know, being a lawyer in, um, a. Government affairs. Um, I thought it would, uh, I would add more value in my corporate, uh, area if I had some more corporate backgrounds in terms of business development. And I had spent some time in my career working in international business and that kind of sparked an interest in m and a activity. And a lot of, you know, uh, I was hanging around a lot of business people, uh, not just from a legal perspective, but from a business development perspective. So that really enticed me to go back to school, uh, as an adult with other adults. Yeah. Uh, that were already established in their careers as well. And it was probably the, one of the best, uh, career decisions that I've made was to go back to school and get my MBA.

Jason: 2:39

I talked to, uh, younger adults often about, well, not often, but occasionally, I guess I should say, about TA doing an MBA, whether they should just tack that on their undergraduate or go to the workforce. I and I, I also did the same. I went back after I had been in the workforce for quite a while, and I think there's a lot of benefit to that. I mean, just the level of. Thinking that you can do, and questions that you can ask and the applications of the material, um, especially if you have a good, um, professional network and even some mentors that you can, you know, go back and, uh, try to understand that material in, in the real life, right? Like in the, in the applications, in the professional field. So. I think that there's, I think that's a lot better way to do it, in my opinion. But yeah, and also I, the people that I went through my MBA with, I'm still connected with them. We were, you know, just, it's been great to see them grow in their own careers and families even. And so, yeah,

Ellie: 3:35

yeah, absolutely, and I think that's what the, the real value was, is that I had some real application, uh, advantage, uh, because I was learning things at school and then I was coming right back to work and I was applying it all at, I was adding value. And, uh, just right before I graduated from the MBA program, I got promoted as a result. So I saw the immediate benefits and just like you, uh, staying connected to my classmates has been, uh, invaluable throughout the years, and it was a lot of fun to be able to go through that experience with people that were already in the workforce and had perspectives as well. It really enriched the classroom, uh, conversation and the experience overall.

Jason: 4:13

So after that, after the MBA, so you got promoted, what kind of a role were you in then?

Ellie: 4:18

So I was working in the law department, uh, doing government affairs. So I moved over to the next, uh, level in government affairs. Uh, eventually a few years later, uh, I did transition to regulatory affairs, doing more, uh, legal work, interacting, uh, with regulators in a different perspective, at responding to inquiries and things of that sort. And, uh, just, uh, a year ago I actually moved back into the government affairs space, but in. A public policy role. Uh, and it's been pretty exciting because I'm working on issues like artificial intelligence. I'm working on stablecoin, cryptocurrencies, cybersecurity,

Jason: 4:55

All the stuff we're talking about.

Ellie: 4:56

Yeah, all the fun stuff. And the role is really designed to anticipate what are going to be the issues in the next five to 10 years that are going to impact, uh, my company and my industry. So it's been really, uh, fascinating to dive into these topics. Uh, it stretches my brain all the time, uh, but it's also a lot of fun'cause I'm learning, uh, new things on a consistent basis.

Jason: 5:20

So LA, you work, so you work in a private sector, right? And so you are employed by a business to do basically be part of their legal counsel. Does that be a right way to put it?

Ellie: 5:31

Yes. So I do public policy and the public policy department is housed within the law department at the company. Wow. Okay. Yeah,

Jason: 5:38

I think for those of us that A, don't work in that sphere and b work in smaller companies, we, that's hard to put our minds around that what, you know, like what that function is. Can you explain a little bit about like what is a, what, you know, what are the objectives of that role and that even functions and like what, what areas of the business are you guys responsible for?

Ellie: 5:59

Absolutely. So my industry is highly regulated. I'm in the insurance industry. And the insurance industry is regulated at the state level. So that means that we are, uh, beholden to regulations in all 50 states. Uh, that means I have to interact with regulators across the country. Uh, then we also have, you know, federal legislation that we have to pay attention to and state legislation. So, uh, our team, uh, splits, splits up the country. And we try to do, uh, the best possible to make sure that we have direct contact with regulators and legislators in the states where we're assigned. It definitely keeps, uh, keeps me busy. I'm traveling quite a lot. I've been living out of my suitcase for many, many years. I just hit the million mile mark, uh, this

Jason: 6:43

Oh my goodness. Wow.

Ellie: 6:46

Uh, but, um, uh, it's, it's, it's been, um, you know, really interesting to be able to talk to people who are making laws and regulations. I kind of grew up in this space. Uh, my mother, uh, worked for a legislator when I was growing up, so I had been around. Uh, legislators for quite some time. So it was kind of natural for me to kind of slide into this space. I also, uh, ran political campaigns at one point in my career that, that I was gonna run for office. Uh, I, uh, changed my mind. Uh, but this, this area of, um, corporate America where I do government affairs and regulatory affairs and public policy, uh, is I think a natural extension of, uh, the activity that I had engaged in earlier in my career. Yeah.

Jason: 7:30

so all the traveling, so you're mainly interacting with legislators and regulators? Is that who you, why you're traveling so much?

Ellie: 7:37

Yes. Yes. Going to directly to the states and also to national meetings where the legislators and the regulators meet

Jason: 7:45

In the insurance, uh, the company that you work for, their insurance, is it like all the different types of insurance or are you talking health insurance or what kind of insurance is it?

Ellie: 7:56

Life insurance. Uh, dental vision. Okay. Disability.

Jason: 8:01

so the things that most all, all of us, it's funny because literally just today. So we're in the fall open enrollment time. So our leadership team met today with our insurance broker, and we're looking at all those. Insurance is such a frustrating thing for people. I don't, you know, and I don't think across the political spectrum even, that there's, everyone agrees there's challenges and problems and the system's not. Not, uh, highly, highly functional. So that's interesting. What do you think, so from your perspective, I'm gonna go a little off track maybe here, but from your perspective, what do you think are the, the things that, um, are, are making insurance so difficult and frustrating for the users? I'm gonna say just the, you know, for the people like us that are using it to keep our families healthy.

Ellie: 8:51

So, so I think I'm probably not the right person to ask because I'm not in the health insurance space. I'm in life insurance and then what we call supplemental health, which is vision, dental, disability, which is not full on health insurance. So, um, we focus on helping families survive difficult times, as you know. Um, obviously when somebody passes away, um, like, uh, you know, someone who has been contributing to the household with financially, that person is gone now. Uh, being able to step in and help the family via life insurance is, is, is key. Yeah. And in many cases, uh, especially if, um, you come from a family that, uh, is of, of not a lot of means, uh, it is a way to provide security, uh, for families moving forward and giving them that, that peace of mind, knowing that they have that. Um, you know, I think it's also, um, important. I think, uh, life insurances contributes to society overall, you know, uh, keeping people from having to rely on government resources, uh, because they've been able to, you know, create the safety net for themselves and for their families. Yeah.

Jason: 9:58

Okay. So, all right. I won't be able to get good answers then from you on that, but I do, I will agree. Elliot, on the life insurance piece, that's something I've been the main breadwinner in my family, uh, for really since my wife and I were married. She, uh, she works. Um, now she stayed home with the kids when she was, when they were younger. So, and it's always been super important for me to have good coverage and I'm obviously, I haven't had to use it, I'm here. But, uh, I would say for sure that um, if you're a breadwinner, it is super critical.'cause I, I always would just, I was highly motivated to make sure that there was good coverage'cause. Just to think about, you know, the challenges that my family would face if something were to happen to me. And then they don't have that, you know, it's just all of a sudden you're now, you're dealing with two major, major problems. Financial and just the loss of a loved one. So,

Ellie: 10:49

Mm-hmm. Yeah,

Jason: 10:51

Okay. So you go and you talk and you meet and you discuss all the laws and regulations, even in different, like you said, different states. Uh, all the states have different, that's just, it can get very complex, I'm sure to understand that and.

Ellie: 11:03

Okay.

Jason: 11:04

sure that you guys are following that, but then also your business models are set up to be successful around that regulation. How long have you been in this space now? Professionally.

Ellie: 11:13

Uh, I wanna say about 18 years. I've been at my company, actually more than that. 20 years I'm going on now, actually. Wow. Yeah. I've been in the, in the insurance space for about 20 years. Long

Jason: 11:23

And where do you call home when you're not living in a hotel.

Ellie: 11:27

I call Florida home.

Jason: 11:28

Oh, nice. Whereabouts in Florida?

Ellie: 11:31

Winter Garden.

Jason: 11:32

Winter Garden. So we were just recently down in Miami. We went on a cruise and so went outta Miami and uh, yeah, I got to enjoy Miami Beach. First time I'd ever been to Miami Beach. It was great in November, sitting on the beach, 81 degrees. We live in Michigan, so then we came home and it snowed 48 hours later after we got home. So, so it was great. What's d what's your family situation? Nel?

Ellie: 11:53

So I am happily married. Uh, and we have, uh, three children. My three stepchildren and three grandchildren.

Jason: 12:01

Oh, now how old are they?

Ellie: 12:03

Yeah, so the oldest is, uh, six, uh, the middle one is two, and the youngest is only, uh, five months.

Jason: 12:12

Oh, congratulations. We have, we have two and they're six and two and a half. They're

Ellie: 12:17

Okay. Yeah. Yeah, they're a lot of fun at that age, aren't they?

Jason: 12:20

Yes, they are. Absolutely. I love it. Absolutely love it. Uh, tell us a little bit about your faith background. What's that look like?

Ellie: 12:28

Sure. So I'm a Christian and, uh, non-denominational. I have been a Christian, uh, I wanna say about 25 years. Um, I, uh, was, uh, actually working a, a, a political event. Uh, and, uh, a gentleman who I knew who was a staffer for an elected official, uh, asked me if, um, if I wanted to, uh, meet his girlfriend who was, uh, doing bible studies. And I said, sure. And, um, that was the beginning of my faith walk. Nice.

Jason: 12:59

Nice, nice. So you just joined in a Bible study with some people you didn't know and started to

Ellie: 13:04

did. I did. I was a little resistant at the beginning, I've gotta be honest with you. Sure. Um, I was just starting, um, uh, pop my political journey. And I was very ambitious at the time and I wanted to run for office, so I was trying to get involved in, uh, you know, the political campaigns and trying to get to know all the important people. And, uh, so I was interested. I did go, but it seemed after a couple of, uh, you know, visits to the church, I'm like, okay, these people are kind of infringing on my free time.

Jason: 13:32

Yeah.

Ellie: 13:33

So I'm like, what's this midweek thing about? What do you mean you want my money? What is this tithing thing? You know? So it just seemed a little intrusive because I was so focused on my career and then at one point I'm like, okay, you guys have to like kind of back off. I'm very focused on my career and I just can't take anything else on right now. Yeah. So I wanna say about a year and a half, maybe two years passed. And by then I had, uh, kind of climbed up the ranks. I was putting in the long hours. I had made a name for myself in politics and I got to a place where, um, I could foresee that I could possibly be asked to run for office probably in the next year or so. And, um, I was in a very dark place, so I'd gotten to where I wanted to be. Yeah. But I'd realized that it wasn't what I wanted it to be or what I expected it to be. Yeah.

Jason: 14:26

Yeah.

Ellie: 14:27

And I just, I was starting to feel the weight of, of the darkness, I'll call it that. That's what I felt like it was in a dark place. And I remember one day just, um, being in my bedroom, just feeling the weight and I just fell to my knees and I was like, God, help me. And, um, he just said, call Angela. That's what I heard. Call Angela. So Angela was the girl who had shared her faith with me, who was taking me to the Bible studies. Yeah. So I still had her number. I

Jason: 14:53

And you hadn't, you hadn't talked in a while.

Ellie: 14:54

while. I hadn't talked to her in like two years. Right. So now here I am now I call her, I'm like, Hey Angela. She says, Hey Ellie, how are you? I'm like, I'm ready now. That's all I said to her.

Jason: 15:04

Nice.

Ellie: 15:05

That is all I said to her. Next thing you know. I was, uh, and it was interesting'cause I was running a mayoral campaign in New York City. It was like a major campaign at the time, and I am going to bible study. So the Bible studies that I wouldn't make time for before. Right now I'm working 12 to 18 hour days. I was literally doing bible study at midnight.

Jason: 15:25

Yeah,

Ellie: 15:25

I would get up at six in the morning to do bible study. Like it was like this cra. And she was like meeting me at like weird hours of the night. I'd have a political campaign and she's like there waiting for me. So we could do bible study. So here was the two of you, me, her, and another young woman who would step into kind of support, right? So here we were. You know, there was this time, you know, years before where I wouldn't make any time because I was so focused on my career. And now here I was now like in a major campaign, crazy hours, and it didn't matter. I was making time for the Lord, right? Like it became my priority and, um, interesting. So I became a Christian August 18th, 2021. I mean 20, uh, 2001. 2000, 2001. Why is that date important? Because less than a month later was nine 11.

Jason: 16:13

Yep. And you were in New York.

Ellie: 16:15

I was in New York. Just just within of watch the whole thing through the window.

Jason: 16:21

Did you really?

Ellie: 16:22

We did the whole that, that morning was election day, so that campaign I'd been working on, it was election day that morning. And, um, you know, the candidate was out voting and we'd already started because the polls opened at 6:00 AM and then the plane, the first plane hit, it was around eight something. And at first we thought it was, you know, a terrorist attack just like everybody else. But by the time the second plane hit, the entire office was like, you know, people were crying. I mean, we were like right there, we could see everything. Um, so it just turned into like this big panic type situation. And I remember having to hold everybody down. So we had a major. Campaign operation. There were like over 50 people running around this office and I had to like calm people down. At one point pulled some of my staffers into the office and we held hands and we prayed. Just kind of keeping people calm, people who didn't wanna stay. I was like, if you don't feel safe, please go home. At one point somebody sat me down and said, we have to leave. You have to leave with us. Now the candidate is home and we, you know, he just voted and we need to go be with him. And I'm like, I am not leaving my staff. I can't. I refuse to leave my staff like until I get these people home safely from the lower Manhattan, I am not leaving my staff. And I just remember that day was a kind of a, it was a dark, heavy day, but I felt strong in the Lord not knowing what was gonna happen for the rest of the day, but just feeling strong in the Lord. Feeling like God had empowered me with some leadership. And here I was a baby Christian, like a year into my, I mean, a month into my walk. And I was like, the Lord is with me. And I just felt strong and confident, even though it was scary, if that makes any sense. Just strong and confident like, God, you're gonna, you're gonna show me what to do here. And what I need to do right now is just to keep my, my, my, my staff calm and make sure everybody gets home safely somehow. Yeah. Um, and I wouldn't leave the office until, you know, people, some people chose to leave on their own. And I'm like, how are you gonna get home? Just making people, you know. And then at the end there were, I wanna say there were probably like 10 of us left and we just walked from lower Manhattan, all the way uptown.'cause the trains weren't running, the buses weren't

Jason: 18:23

So everything was down. Yeah.

Ellie: 18:25

people were full of the things that were falling from the sky. It was a really dark, scary day. And we just together, we just plowed through and, and that God got me through that day. God got me through that day. So I thank the Lord that I got to that place just a month before.

Jason: 18:42

Yeah. Do you think, Ellie, as you, that's an incredible story. That's an incredible testimony. Do you think, looking back, did you realize as you went through that that was like this. Peace or confidence is not from me as a new Christian. Did you realize like, this is not normal for this to be happening and me to feel this level of strength or peace or confidence? Do you think maybe reflecting the next day on it or you know, was there a time when you realized that that was coming from the Lord?

Ellie: 19:11

Yeah, the whole time. I think it was, it was just this, um, you, you, you just know it's not you.

Jason: 19:17

Yeah. The piece that per surpasses all understanding, right? It's like, nah, this doesn't make sense. It's not logical.

Ellie: 19:23

Yeah, it's like the supernatural strength. And not that I was a superhero, but it was like I felt so grounded in that moment and I'm like, I need to, I need to be strong here because I've gotta make sure that these people are okay. You know? Something just kind of kicked in. And it's funny'cause you do reflect back and you're like, was that really me? Did I really do that? Did I really stand up to people and tell'em I'm not leaving until my, yeah. Like, you know, you start like, how did I do that? Because it, it felt out of character. But it was in God's character. Right. It was God's character through me. Yeah. Um, and I've, I've seen that replayed in my life in different instances where I've made decisions, where I've said things, where I've done things that I'm like, that just seems really out of character, but I'm like, I know it's God. God is working through me. And, and that's why I have so much faith. And I just, I'm like, God, just, I, I always say, God, help me. I, it doesn't have to be a long, extensive prayer. Sometimes you don't always have the words. You just know you need help. And I just say, God help me. And I'm like, God, I'm just tr I just trust you. That's the other thing I say all the time. It's like, God, I trust you, God, I trust you. I pray those things all the time. I say those things all the time and he, he kicks in. He just kicks in

Jason: 20:31

He's always there waiting for us to, I mean, yeah, it's the Holy Spirit dwelling within us. Right.

Ellie: 20:35

Absolutely.

Jason: 20:37

uh, that, well you mentioned, you know, that that's what part, what drives your faith. And I think as we mature as believers that we can't not have the faith because we know it's real. This God is living in us and living through us. And it is, there's nothing that will convince us that, you know, it's by his grace that we have that faith and that we, we have that work of the Holy Spirit going on inside of us. So.

Ellie: 20:58

That's right.

Jason: 20:59

I completely understand. Hey, what are your, one of the things I always like to ask people, like, what are your spiritual disciplines, uh, ally now like the, to stay grounded in the Lord and to grow in sanctification, what do you do? You and your husband, your family, especially traveling? I think that's really inter because I've, I will admit, I don't, I'm not a road warrior like you.

Ellie: 21:17

you

Jason: 21:18

And I always find when I travel, I get out of them my good habits and you know, so maybe you have an answer for those of us that don't travel as much on how you stay, stay, you know, in the words, stay in prayer.

Ellie: 21:30

So when I am, um, on the ground, right, let's say I don't have travel for a couple of weeks, um, I love to journal. I love to get up early in the morning. One of my favorite things to do, uh, is get up early in the morning, uh, with my tea. I open up the shades, uh, in my office because I like to see the sun come up and I just sit there quietly with the Lord. I pray and I journal and read the Bible. That's like one of my favorite, favorite things to do. And again, that's when I've got some stability and I'm not bouncing all over the place. Uh, when I'm traveling and I'm in constant conversation with the Lord throughout the day. But it's, it's the main thing I rely on when I am traveling, um, simply because you don't know what could potentially happen when you're traveling, right? You get on a plane, you're in a car, you're whatever it is. So I'm constantly, God help me, get me to where I'm going safely. You know? I pray for people that I see on the plane. Sometimes people look stressed, sometimes people look sad. Um, sometimes you see, um, somebody having a hard time at the airport. So one of my disciplines is like to actually pray for people along the way. Nice.

Jason: 22:33

Nice.

Ellie: 22:34

Um, you know, just, just noticing things. I don't ever wanna be so disconnected or so focused in what I'm doing that I'm not aware of my surroundings. Um, so that's, that's one of the things I'm like mainly doing. Then obviously, you know, reading the devotionals, um. Praying, uh, listening to a podcast or listening to, um, a couple of, uh, recordings that I keep on my phone. Uh, I love Joyce Meyer. And, uh, back in the day, I went to a couple of her conferences and I, uh, bought the, bought the recordings. And some of, some of my favorite messages, uh, are from Joyce Meyer and I, and I play them over. Yeah, I play them over and over again sometimes.

Jason: 23:12

who do you fly?

Ellie: 23:13

with? Delta.

Jason: 23:14

Delta. I wondered. Okay. That's, they're my, they're my favorite airline. So if you're a Delta flyer, maybe you'll see LA sometime

Ellie: 23:20

Yeah. Yep.

Jason: 23:22

That's good. I like what you said about um, s. attention to what's going on around you and people that are going around around, especially when, when I travel and I'm, I'm kind of wired this way anyways. I'm in get it done mode and I can easily, you know, look past those things. So that's, I think that's really wise to stay sensitive to that. And you never know, the Lord opens up an opportunity not only to pray for'em, but maybe speak to'em and share the gospel or just talk to them about what the Lord's doing in your life. So,

Ellie: 23:50

Absolutely. That's

Jason: 23:51

That's awesome.

Ellie: 23:52

awesome.

Jason: 23:52

Uh, let's talk a little bit about leadership. Um, what's your background there? What, like what is your responsibilities as a leader and what's your experience there?

Ellie: 24:01

So I think I learned early on, um, in my career that leadership is essential in whatever situation you're in, whether you actually have a title or not. And I think it's because I've always been around people that have had titles.

Jason: 24:17

yeah.

Ellie: 24:17

You know, I've always been around someone who's like elected or you know, some sort of an official of some sort, you know, staffing them or, um, working with them. And then also working with the people behind them. And I used to be one of those people, right? Working, uh, both in government or working on a political campaign where you actually support these individuals who are making really important decisions. Um, so I've been a student of leadership for quite some time, and I've seen people rise. I've seen them fall, and I, I take all those lessons that I've learned throughout the years and that I continue to learn even in corporate America. Uh, being exposed to, uh, a lot of people in high ranking leadership roles, um, uh, you know, integrity is, is very important to me. Uh, I, I, I've seen it time and time again how core, uh, integrity really is to, to leadership and humility.

Jason: 25:10

Yeah.

Ellie: 25:10

You know, I have been around leaders who, uh, believe all, all their, all their press, everything that they read in the papers about themselves.

Jason: 25:19

All the hype.

Ellie: 25:19

Yeah. They, yeah. And they, and they believe the hype, they believe their own hype. Right.

Jason: 25:23

Yeah. Yeah.

Ellie: 25:24

And you can see how they, um, treat others, uh, whether, you know, they sometimes because they believe their hype, they expect other people to treat them in certain ways. Um, and then you see other leaders who, it doesn't matter what their rank, their title is, they they remain humble. They remain kind. And kindness to me is, is a key leadership principle. Yeah.

Jason: 25:47

Yeah.

Ellie: 25:47

Uh, and I, uh, I aspire to continue to be kind to people that I interact with because I've, I've seen so many leaders, uh, not be nice to others. So, uh, for me, uh, leadership is, is, is shaped by, um, you know, God's word ultimately, but also, um, uh, it's also been shaped by what I've observed in, in the world.

Jason: 26:10

I like that you said you're a, a student of leadership. I can remember clearly early two thousands, I think God really started to place on my heart this desire to be a better leader to learn. And I remember just trying to find, of course this is, this is before it was so easy to download a Kindle book or even, I mean, Amazon existed, but certainly not as easy as is now for all the material and the podcast and everything. Uh, but I like exactly what you said. I've always tried to be a student of leadership and learn from you can learn from great leaders and you can learn from really bad leaders as well, and you can learn from'em both. And I remember somebody telling me that one time this person who was senior to me, but he and I were both working in an organization where the, the leader at the time was going through a really bad spot. They just were. And as I reflect back now. You know, they were not in the right position, but they were going through a really bad spot and they were being a really terrible, hard person to follow. And I was, you know, I was pretty young at the time and I was like, this is crazy why, like, this is terrible. This is a terrible situation. We're having to be under this kind leadership. And that older gentleman told me, he said, you will learn as much

Ellie: 27:20

through

Jason: 27:21

through this experience as you will even working for good leaders. So pay attention. And I, you know, and I still reflect back on that and some things that.

Ellie: 27:28

that

Jason: 27:28

I saw done and watched be done to me and to my team. I'm like, no, I definitely, want to avoid that.'cause I know how that feels. Like you said kindness and, uh, just humility and, um, you know, it, it wasn't an integrity piece, but certainly we see that now. I mean, every day in the news, people that are, that is a. I wanna say like I, this might not be the right term, but like a force multiplier times zero, all the good you've done, all the things you've done. You know, one, one moment, one decision, that's a lax integrity can erase all that

Ellie: 28:03

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jason: 28:04

so quickly.

Ellie: 28:05

Absolutely.

Jason: 28:05

So, yeah. Um,

Ellie: 28:07

Um,

Jason: 28:08

who are some of the leadership people that you follow as you study leadership? Is there certain authors or even podcasts that you.

Ellie: 28:16

you

Jason: 28:16

Really love to follow and learn from.

Ellie: 28:18

Yeah, so I really like, uh, John Maxwell. Um, obviously he's, uh, he's like the, the, the leadership guy, right? The leadership guru. So I love following John Maxwell and particularly'cause it's from a Christian focus, you know, he brings that Christian focus into a lot of his leadership lessons. Um, um, uh, and, uh, Adam Grant, who was a professor, uh, author. And I really like his take on leadership. Uh, there's, um, humility is built into his, uh, leadership approach

Jason: 28:47

Adam Grant. I've not heard of him.

Ellie: 28:49

Yeah, so I really, I really like following him. I follow him on LinkedIn. He does a lot of videos. Um, he's written a number of books, so he's, uh, he's a great guy. I like to follow

Jason: 28:58

We'll link to him. So is that mainly where you follow him is on LinkedIn?

Ellie: 29:01

Yes, mainly on LinkedIn. He posts regularly and he does a lot of podcast interviews as well. So he's, uh. Nice, humble, uh, guy with great leadership principles.

Jason: 29:10

Great. I'll, I'll put a link to his, uh, LinkedIn in the podcast notes so we can check him out.

Ellie: 29:15

right?

Jason: 29:16

Yeah. Anybody else?

Ellie: 29:18

Uh, and then Jesus. Gonna be honest with you, right? I don't really have a lot of time to follow a lot of people. Um, so, uh, you know, I I I try to keep it simple. Uh, and when I don't have a lot of time to read books these days, it's, I always go back to the Bible. That's like the one consistent book, right? I go back, I revisit the leadership, yeah, reread the leadership principles I've gotten from there, and, uh, that that's what keeps me focused and grounded. Yeah,

Jason: 29:44

yeah. Throughout the old New Testament, I'm, I'm going through right now, uh, the book of Joshua. I've read, I've been in the Old Testament for a while, and I was just thinking like I've read it before. I've been a believer for 30 years, and I even grew up in the church.

Ellie: 29:55

church,

Jason: 29:56

But I'm seeing stuff, not, I, I guess I'm seeing stuff different and new now. You know, God keeps unveiling who he is, more about who he is, you know, and that's the same words I've read before and I'm sure heard preaching on. But yes, that's, uh, yeah, his character that we need to grow more like and all of that. So absolutely always be in the word.

Ellie: 30:16

Yep.

Jason: 30:17

As you think back, um, Ellie, when you were a younger leader, whether it was, you know, professionally, work-wise, or even in, in your, uh, some of the politics that you did, what's something that you struggled with early on as a leader and how did you work through that, mature through that? Is it something you still struggle with? Like, tell us a little bit about that.

Ellie: 30:38

So I think the, the identity piece was the, the thing that I struggled with the most in the beginning. Um. You know, uh, my favorite movie is, uh, the Devil Wears Prada. The Devil

Jason: 30:49

The Devil Wear Pro. I don't think I've seen it ever. I've heard of it.

Ellie: 30:53

Well, it's my favorite movie. I'm not gonna give the ending away, but it's my favorite movie because the character, uh, is, um, this, um, ambitious, uh, uh, college graduate who wants to go into journalism. And she's trying to find a job where she gets to write and she ends up, uh, going to an interview at a fashion magazine. And, uh, she gets hired by the fashion magazine. Uh, she clearly doesn't fit in. Uh, and this is a world where she, you know, she can't relate to anything that's happening and finds, in fact, she finds some of it comical, you know, fashion, you know, she's not into that. She's more intellectual and, uh, she has a hard time gelling with her boss. And eventually she kind of caves into the culture because she wants to be successful. And when she caves into the culture, she loses some of who she was.

Jason: 31:41

Hmm.

Ellie: 31:42

And the movie kind of tracks how she loses her identity and then how she regains it at the end. Right? She kind of got lost, you know, in the shuffle of, uh, working in this, this high fashion world. Um, and it reminds me of kind of my own journey in politics. You know, I kind of forgot who I was or maybe I didn't know who I was. And I think that's probably really what really was. I didn't know who I was. There was this image of who I wanted to be. Yeah. And then I went through this journey and then I got to the place where I thought I wanted to be. And it wasn't everything that I thought it was going to be.

Jason: 32:17

Yes.

Ellie: 32:17

But I, um, I'm really glad I went through it because I don't think I would've found Jesus if I wouldn't have gone through that. Yep.

Jason: 32:25

yep. Yep. Yep,

Ellie: 32:27

and I, I, I talk to a lot of people who sometimes feel like, oh, you know, I'm not good enough to be a Christian, or I have this past, or I did this or I did that. And I'm like, but. Your ugly, whatever your ugly is, whatever the ugly period is in your life, can be closely tied to the most beautiful part of your life.

Jason: 32:47

yeah.

Ellie: 32:48

And sometimes it takes that ugly part or the uncomfortable part, or the part of not knowing who you were in order for you to discover who you really are.

Jason: 32:57

That's right.

Ellie: 32:57

At the end. So for me here I was in that dark period, you know? And then, but it's what led me to the light. And if I, if I think if I would've just been coasting along, I would've never hit the place where, what it, what that would've introduced me to Christ. Yeah.

Jason: 33:12

yeah, yeah. No, I, I mean, I'm just thinking of people in my life that I know, and even me, I mean, when I, again, I grew up in the church. I think I wasn't very serious about my faith. Moved out, went out on my own, got married, not interested in following the Lord, and he allowed my life to implode. I mean, implode, and yeah, that's what it took, and I'm so thankful for that. And what he's done, he's taken, you know, he's redeemed it. He's redeemed it, just like he does,

Ellie: 33:41

Absolutely.

Jason: 33:42

beauty from ashes as we, as we often say. So I love that. Yeah, I love that story and I think that's common too, even for believers that are young leaders. I struggled with that. Like, this is my identity in the job, in the role and, and putting too much emphasis on it. Like, I'm gonna be this, I'm gonna be this. And you know, maybe you have to hold it more in an open hand and not such a death grip.

Ellie: 34:04

Yes. You

Jason: 34:05

You know, I think it's good to have career ambition and motivation and dreams, but it's in God's hands. And we have to be willing to say, well, if you close that door, or, you know, push me. I've talked to people on this podcast that were, um, you know, in great careers of high levels and they got fired and they're like, obviously, you know, nobody looks forward to that going into work, but that changed their lives. God used that to, you know, uh, bring more blessings into their life. So.

Ellie: 34:33

absolutely.

Jason: 34:33

I Elliot, in your, in your work, how do you, how do you honor Christ in the work that you do? How do what you know things do you do to try to honor him? You talked a little bit about even while you travel and praying for those around you, but what other things do you do to try to honor him in your work?

Ellie: 34:48

So, um, I'll say, uh, two things, right? So a few years ago, uh, one of the things that I did was I launched a, um, a business on the side, right? So, uh, it was to help women get ahead in their careers because. Uh, being in politics, I found that I was often the only woman sitting at the table. Sometimes I was the youngest person sitting at the tables, very heavily male dominated when I entered politics in New York City and a lot of women would come to me and ask me for advice on how to get ahead. Uh, and I would, you know, advise them and, and mentor them. And I really enjoyed doing that. And that's about when coaching was becoming a thing and I got certified as a Christian coach. And then launched a company called Leadership Strategies for Women. So for all these years I've been working my corporate job and then, you know, running this kind of side business. And, um, one of the things I found over the years as I was continuing to build my business was that Christian women would naturally gravitate towards me. And I guess it's because I, I'm shared my faith. So they say I'm a, I'm a Christian woman, so they wanna come to a Christian woman to ask for leadership advice and, um. You know, a lot of what they were struggling with, I was struggling with at work as well. So it just forced me to go into the Bible and start digging up leadership principles. So I would coach them on the principles. I would adopt a lot of those principles myself. Uh, I found that I was getting ahead in different ways at work. I was starting to see work very differently. I was starting to see work interactions very differently. It was forcing me to respond differently.

Jason: 36:26

Yeah.

Ellie: 36:26

situations. And I was also sharing this with the women I was coaching. They were getting ahead and I started to get ahead in a lot of ways as well. You know, obviously I did the right professional things, but, um, a lot of what you do at work is interacting with other people. You can't get away from, uh, interacting with people. Uh, so you could perform all you want, but if you've got a bad attitude, if you don't know how to negotiate people relations. Uh, sometimes your career can get stunted. Yeah. Um, so I found that one of the ways to honor God was applying these leadership principles, uh, in my day to day. Uh, I remember, uh, one particular situation where I was, um, where I encountered, uh, a bad boss. I can't put it any other way. I had a

Jason: 37:12

Yeah, we've been there.

Ellie: 37:14

And this person was, um, extremely arrogant. And this person would like to lord it over people. And uh, at some point this person kind of got moved into another department and the person that was already had a big ego, had an even bigger ego because they were moving ahead. And despite the fact that this person was no longer my boss, whenever I would interact with this person, the person was still. Nasty. I can't put it another way. It was just a nasty experience, unpleasant experience dealing with this person. And I was like, what is, you know? So I went back to the Bible. The Bible talks about love your enemies. Yeah. And so I think when we hear the word love, we think that we have to conjure up fuzzy, warm feelings for somebody. But the Bible never talks about love being a feeling, never.

Jason: 38:04

It's action.

Ellie: 38:05

is an action. It's a decision, right? Love is kind, love is patient, right? We've got all these things that love is supposed to be, and I'm like, okay, God. So you want me to be all these things to this person. All right? So challenge number one, but then also pray for your enemies. Pray, I have to pray for this person. I had some internal struggles and I'm like, okay, God, but I wanted to be so obedient, right? I wanted to be obedient, so I'm like, okay, God, this is what I'm gonna pray. I'm gonna pray. Lord, help me to pray.

Jason: 38:39

Yeah,

Ellie: 38:40

Help me to pray for this person. And then every, every day I just added one more thing to the prayer until I wa you know, I finally got to this. I'm like, God, help this person get to know you. I want this person to get to know you. And, and eventually my, my heart softened. Yeah,

Jason: 38:56

it does.

Ellie: 38:56

Did the person ever change? I don't know. Eventually the person was actually let go. Believe it or not, um, I don't, you know, I, I, I haven't seen the person since they left the company. Uh, and but I realized in that moment that that whole experience was more about me.

Jason: 39:12

Yeah.

Ellie: 39:13

Yeah, it wasn't about that person. I love

Jason: 39:14

I love

Ellie: 39:15

It was all about me acting in obedience to the Lord. So that's one of the ways that I practice leadership and obedience at work, is knowing that whenever I encounter a difficult situation. There is Ellie from the Bronx, right? I grew up in the Bronx. There's Ellie from the Bronx that wants to respond a certain way.

Jason: 39:34

I love it. Yeah, I get

Ellie: 39:35

natural, my natural being wants to like do and say something and then I've gotta say, Nope. Now we gotta talk to Ellie, who is a Christian woman who wants to obey God. Now what does that woman need to do? So I have to tame Ellie from the Bronx and they go, okay, this is, this is what the Lord wants me to do. This is what he calls me to do. And that's what I, that's what I lean on and that's what I move into. That's the direction I go in. And a lot of the times what God wants us to do is counterintuitive.

Jason: 40:05

Oh, well, it certainly goes against our flesh, right? And what we wanna do.

Ellie: 40:09

Absolutely. So to me, um, learning what those counterintuitive, um, not rules'cause they're not rules, right. But they're, they, the, the, the counterintuitive guidance that God gives us. Um, leaning into that, learning what it is, looking for it, actually look for it.

Jason: 40:27

I,

Ellie: 40:27

Um, uh, that's one of the leadership principles I like to actually employ at work is looking

Jason: 40:32

that's a great example.

Ellie: 40:33

guidance. Yeah.

Jason: 40:35

Well, you know, the saying, uh, which is terrible saying, follow your heart. Well, the heart is deceitfully awakened above all things. So I think that's what you're saying is don't follow that. I, when you were talking to Ellie, um, a verse came to my mind. I couldn't remember the reference, but I looked it up and I've, I've had the same conviction when I've had a boss that I did not enjoy following. And it's one Peter two 18. It says, servants be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the unjust. I've been convicted by that verse, uh, more than once. So I love that story. That's fantastic. And like you said, I don't know if he changed or not, but Ellie did. Ellie grew in her faith. Right?

Ellie: 41:16

Exactly.

Jason: 41:16

that's amazing. Thank you for sharing that. That's really good. Um. So let's, before we wrap up, I would like to talk about how people can connect with you, either if they just wanna network with you professionally or maybe, um, there's some people who would like to connect with you on a coaching basis. What's the best way to, what's the best way to do that?

Ellie: 41:35

Sure. So I'm, I'm on LinkedIn, so if you look up Ellie Vez on LinkedIn, definitely connect with me there. Would love to, um, you know, follow, you, learn about you. I'm always interested in hearing what other Christian professionals are doing and what they're up to. And, uh, I have got, um, uh, uh, a network of Christian women that, uh, I'm growing and we meet monthly to, uh, connect in sisterhood. And then also I provide professional development. Um, webinars, uh, from a Christian perspective. Yeah. Um, all on topics and issues that we face in the workplace. You know, how to, uh, manage stress, how to make sure that we practice, uh, biblical, uh, rest, um, how we, um, manage office politics. How you work with difficult colleagues, you know, so we talk about all the stuff that we typically work with at, that we deal with at work, but we talk about it from a biblical perspective and walk away with some real tools. So that we can apply them at work. So that's Christian career women.com,

Jason: 42:34

Christian career women.com. I will link to your LinkedIn profile and to that website. Do you guys meet virtually? Do you have a, is that how you get together?

Ellie: 42:44

Yes. We meet virtually, uh, the third Monday of the.

Jason: 42:48

I like that. I'm thinking of a couple ladies that I will connect you with that um, are in my network that are believers and yeah, could definitely, um, benefit from networking with other. Christian ladies, uh, and the, and you know, that are professionals that are trying to grow their career and do it in a way that honors God so well. Good. Uh, anything else you'd like to cover before we wrap up? I've really just enjoyed hearing from you and listening to your testimon is amazing and yeah. How God's using you in this specific niche field that you're in. I love meeting people that are doing different stuff all over that God's called'em to.

Ellie: 43:24

Absolutely. Well, thank you so much and I, I love that you are hosting this podcast, you, you labeled it perfectly Biblical leadership. And, um, I'll leave your, um, listeners with, uh, Proverbs 4 26, uh, and that scripture is all about watching carefully the path of your feet. And ensuring that all your ways are steadfast and Sure. Uh, especially when we think about our leadership and when we think about our professional walks, we really need to, um, be focused and intentional and faithful about the walk that we're going in. Uh, so I'll leave them with that scripture. Hopefully it'll be an encouragement. Uh, and we'll just force all of them to stop and, and reflect so that they could be intentional in their leadership.

Jason: 44:07

while it's encouraging to me and a good reminder, Ellie, and it's been an absolute joy to talk to you. Thank you. And uh, yeah, God bless. Thank you.

44:15

and thank you again for joining us this month. I pray that the coming month brings you and your family many blessings as you spend time together and reflect on the miracle of the birth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Lord willing, I'll be back here again on New Year's Day 2026 with another episode of the show.