Biblical Leadership @ Work
Biblical Leadership @ Work
Andrew Crapuchettes - CEO of RedBalloon
In this episode of the Biblical Leadership @ Work Podcast, host Jason Woodard interviews Andrew Crapuchettes, CEO of Red Balloon. Andrew shares his journey from the San Francisco tech scene to founding Red Balloon, a job board that champions freedom and meritocracy. He discusses the challenges he's faced due to his conservative Christian values, including being let go from a company he helped build. Andrew offers insights into his leadership philosophy, his commitment to integrating faith into his work, and his vision for positively impacting workplace culture across America. Tune in to hear how Andrew's experiences have shaped his approach to business and leadership.
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Welcome to the biblical leadership outwork podcast. I am your host, Jason Woodard. In this month's interview. Andrew Crapuchettes sheds CEO of red balloon shares his journey from growing up in the San Francisco tech scene to founding several successful businesses, including red balloon. Andrew discusses the challenges he's faced, including being, let go from a company he helped build. Due to his conservative Christian values. He explains how his new venture red balloon is reshaping the workplace by offering a job board that champions freedom and meritocracy. Listen in and learn about Andrew's leadership philosophy, his commitment to integrating faith into his work and his vision for a billion dollar business. That positively impacts workplace culture. Across America. All right. Well, Andrew Krapischetz, he's CEO of Red Balloon. Man, thank you for, being on today. I cannot wait to, get to know you a little bit more and your business. And, just talk about what God has done in you and through you. So
Andrew:Yeah, well, thank you. Well, I'm very grateful to be here. It's uh, it's exciting. I do feel like we're having a little bit of a renaissance and, you know, your show's part of that, but where people are realizing that, um, your business can be a ministry, it could be a great opportunity to bless people at scale. Um, and so anyway, excited for the conversation.
Jason:for sure. No, I do too. I think I've, I've called it a movement before. I, you know, maybe it's because I'm focused more on it, but 10 years. Just more and more people that are either doing this type of stuff full time or part time and talking about it and writing books So yeah, so hey, um Andrew, let's start off like I always do talk to us a little bit about Just career like where has the Lord brought you from in your career up to where he's got you now and what you're doing
Andrew:Yeah, well, I appreciate that. Uh, so I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area, kind of the dot com, uh, kid. My dad actually helped install some of the compu uh, like, first computers at Stanford University. So we were way back in the, in the heart of the Bay Area tech scene. Um, and so I started working when I was 16 years old. Found a job at a dot com that was just starting to blow up and really had the opportunity to kind of Get in the ground level and see how things went and honestly, they were a business that was successful Mildly profitable just a good healthy little business and then the dot com crazy hit And I saw them take on 32 million of venture capital money and basically go from trying to make a million or two a year of profit to trying to lose 8 million a year. Um, and man, it totally changes the culture. It's like adding steroids to a bodybuilder. Like, it's, like, it looked really cool, but you see the
Jason:Not healthy
Andrew:not healthy, not healthy at all. So, um, But I got some great opportunities through that so I'm I'm blessed but basically I got to do seven different jobs with them all the way up till I was about 23 years old and I was running a team and covering Asia and the West Coast and you know I started traveling for work when I was 19 years old. I turned 21 with an expense account, you know, I was a Karaoke bars under the street in Tokyo with businessmen and like just wild
Jason:it sounds like trouble. Sounds like
Andrew:Yeah, it sounds like trouble. You know, I I by the grace of God stayed out of you know Made your sin or anything like that, but it still was an incredible experience and I had a really good Christian boss who actually Um, was willing to invest in me as a very young man, um, and really push on me and, um, encourage me to do a lot. So I did, um, but I kind of hit, uh, you know, we hit, uh, the year 2000. I was about 22 years old. I've been working 80 hours a week for years and I'm like, I'm tired. I'm kind of burned out at the ripe old age of 22 years old. Um, and I've had money in the bank. I'd like bought a house and I'm like, yeah, but like, I'm like, I lost my childhood. So, um, uh, so I actually moved up to Idaho at that point. I'm like, I need to change the scenery. Uh, there was a church I wanted to go up to in Idaho, and I thought, well, why not? I'll just go up there, and, and at 22, if you move somewhere and you don't like it, you can move somewhere else. It's not actually that big of a decision. Uh, so I moved up here. I love it. Um, I kind of looked around the community, saw, Uh, really good Christian people, but terrible business people. Like, there was, like you're either working at the universities, the University of Idaho is in town here in Moscow, Idaho, or there's Walmart or the hospital. And it's like, well, if you want to not be a professor, but you do want to support a family, you've got to figure out what to do. There really wasn't remote work at that
Jason:Right.
Andrew:so what's the plan? Um, and so, about that time, our dot com that I was involved in ran out of money, and so they went ahead and went out of business. That And so I use that as an opportunity to say, okay, God, what do you have for me? Um, and so, um, I've always been passionate about people having great employment where they can prosper in their lives, where they can pay their bills, where they can feed their family, and where they have extra, so they can go on vacation, so they can support ministries, so they can do things and not just survive, but actually prosper. And so I thought, okay, Lord, I guess I need to start making jobs because I can't complain about a thing if I'm not willing to do something about it. So. Um, I strapped in and started creating businesses. Uh, I created a 3D printing business that we ended up selling to Stryker Engineering. I created a student information software business with some other guys that we ended up selling off to the employees at a management buyout there because I wanted them to be able to build wealth for their families and kind of their, you know, build their own legacies. And then I created a labor market data company, which sounds super boring, but there it is, built that to like a 50 million business, got to sell it a couple times. Really, as I was running that business in particular, that's really where my heart was. I was trying to be distinctly Christian in the way I ran the business, right? So I would have employees come in and be like, Hey, you are welcome here. Everyone is welcome. It's not a weird thing, but I am an unapologetic conservative. Christian CEO. And here are some of the ramifications of the way that I'm going to run the business. And as long as you're good with that, you are welcome to this business. Um, and we built it to about a 50 million business, very healthy, um, uh, work environment, very healthy profit margin. We were growing like 25 percent a year, uh, 40 percent margin. The owners were extremely happy until 2020 came around. And then all of a sudden they felt like they needed to have a CEO who was Um, was pretty left leaning, and so they actually sat me down. And said you are a conservative christian ceo and that's just not allowed at our organization anymore So you can kind of park your christianity at your weekend And be the ceo or you're just not the right guy for our organization That was pretty painful. I'll be honest, right? This is a business that I absolutely loved. I loved working with the people I love the technology we were building. It was fun I love the financial rewards that came from running a very successful business. Um, and all of a sudden, it was, uh, I was given this choice. I can kind of deny Christ in my job, or, uh, I can keep my job. And so, I'm like, I think a lot of Christians over the years have gotten this choice before. And it's not like I'm being thrown to the lions. I'm just going to lose my job. So, um, so, there you go. So I got kicked out of the business that I helped found, um, and I'd sold, so I didn't have enough ownership to push back, um, and found myself delightfully unemployed. And this is about early mid 2021.
Jason:Okay. Yeah. So then is that when you started or pursued the, uh, the red, red balloon. So talk a little bit about that. I mean,
Andrew:yeah, that was, uh, you know, my initial plan was, I'm like, you know what, I'm just gonna take a year off. I don't need another job. I don't need to start another business. I already had a commercial real estate, um, kind of portfolio of, uh, buildings. I was doing housing development, so I kind of had this real estate gig I was doing on the side, um, and really enjoying. Um, I was on the board of my kid's school and on the church, you know, elder board and some national organizations and some private companies. And so I really was in a spot where it's like, well, I don't necessarily need to work right now. And I've worked really hard for a lot of years. Maybe I'm gonna take a year off, play a little golf, hang out with my kids and take a deep breath. Um, and I am terrible at retirement. It's just not something I've ever
Jason:wasn't ready.
Andrew:I was already at, you know, I was, you know, what, 44 years old. So, you know, it's not like I was retirement age yet. Um, but basically a friend challenged me and they said, look, you were just given a choice between your job and your values, right? Um, and I had the financial wherewithal to kind of easily made the right decision there, but for a lot of conservatives and Christians, if you're given that choice, job or values, um, it's really hard. Because you're not just looking at, am I going to get cancelled from Facebook, or am I going to not be able to fish anymore? You're looking at, am I going to be able to Feed my kids and pay my mortgage, right? Um, and so you're going to be at least tempted to compromise on something you hold very dearly, right? Whether it's a Christian value or something else. And so that was, uh, kind of this realization that like, well, I am very blessed that I was where I was, but if there was a spot where I could help other people who maybe didn't have those financial, uh, kind of wherewithal to do those things, um, but instead they were, in a position where they knew that if they stuck with their values and it cost them their job, they had a backup plan. And so I'm like, fine, I will create a job board. Job boards are not that hard to build. My brother and I actually knocked it out kind of on the weekend initially and just said, great, there's a job board. It's a pro freedom job board where people don't have to sign up for the latest political correctness. And in fact, one of the early issues was the vaccine mandates. And my stance on that was look, If you want to get a vaccine, knock yourself out, but you're an adult and you should probably figure that out based on a conversation with your doctor, not your HR department. And that was controversial enough that I kind of put that out there. I'm like, great. I've made my job board. It's good. We're set to go. Um, and then I get this call from Fox and friends and they're like, Hey, we heard that you have the nation's leading job board for companies that don't have vaccine mandates. I'm like, I'm like,
Jason:Really?
Andrew:like three months ago. Yes, and I'm like, I'm like that's news to me, right? And I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. I mean, I have 20 businesses and maybe a thousand job seekers Like this is a tiny little board that really is not that meaningful Then they're like, well, would you come on the show and talk about it? I'm like, yeah, sure. I'm happy to jump on Um, not knowing that that you know, it's kind of a massive platform So I go on talk about red balloon talk about the importance of freedom in the workplace And lo and behold, um, we're adding hundreds of new employers every day We're adding tens of thousands of job seekers every day And all of a sudden it's like oh man lord. I wasn't ready to start another business I just wanted to play golf and hang out with my kids really, uh, but here we are. So, um, so yeah, that's kind of the beginning of Red Balloon. And you know, you go through a lot of ups and downs and all of that. Um, but I think one of the most rewarding things that we've been able to do here at Red Balloon, um, and I've not had this with any other business I've run, is I would get unsolicited thank you notes from perfect strangers literally every single week. I get people saying, you know, you changed the trajectory of my family because of the job where I'm allowed to be free. Or Um, I've had a dozen people write and say I just wanted you to know you saved my marriage because of the job that I or my husband got, um, uh, through Red Balloon. Because when you swim in, we'll call it liberal or woke waters for eight to ten hours a day, it's gonna rub off on you. It's gonna have a huge impact on how you view every other aspect of your life. I had a single mom write me. And say, you know, I just wanted to let you know, I got a new job through Red Balloon about three weeks ago, dream job, love the job. Um, but, uh, she had two boys and one of them came when she came home after that first three weeks and said, mommy, you're not angry anymore. She's like, oh no, I was angry mommy. Like, you know, first of all, that's kind of her initial reaction. I didn't even know it because it's just, Like it has such an impact on your outlook on life how you interact with other people And and she's like, but i'm not angry anymore and praise the lord for that. So anyway, there you go So there's a it has been an incredible adventure and an incredible blessing to be able to part be part of that story for so many People
Jason:That's great. Now it was fascinating when I first heard you on a podcast talking about what the business is. I have to ask what, how did the name Red Balloon? What,
Andrew:yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever been on a hot air balloon?
Jason:I have not. We have them in our area where I live at. We do an annual festival. So I see them every July in this area. I've not been on one.
Andrew:okay, you should ride one, it's really fun. So I did a hot air balloon with my kids in Dartmoor, England, where, uh, you know, you had the, um, a lot of novels were written there, and so on and so forth. So Dartmoor, England, out on the moors, we go up on a hot air balloon, and what was fascinating to me is it's this very, um, it's quiet. Because unless you've got a major storm, you go with the wind. So there's no wind noise, because you kind of are just going with it. Which is interesting. And the only way you can direct a hot air balloon. At least that's what the pilot told me, is you have to go up and down to try and find air that's going the right way, right? And so you do, you are going somewhere, you don't have a lot of control, it's super quiet, you're getting ghosted all the time, it feels a lot like the job searching process. And so really that was kind of my tie in and then people are they're going somewhere. They're going to red states. They're going to red cities in blue states. They're going to businesses where freedom reigns. They're going to red businesses where they can live their values out loud, be a hard working employee that believes in merit, but isn't aren't afraid of being caught. Canceled and so really that's that's the heart of it. So it's red balloon dot work Because people are escaping they're going to freedom in this kind of job search process.
Jason:Well, I'll tell you, I'll just share a little bit. I've been in the workforce, whatever, for 30 some years now, and I've been really fortunate that I've never been at an employer where I felt, you know, really any pressure, you know, from a political standpoint to, and I, you know, I work right now with people that, of course, we're making this recording, what, 48 hours after the election. And you know, I work in a pretty diverse small company, but I know there's people that voted differently than me that think differently than me, but man, we come into, we come in every day and we work together to solve problems and to benefit the business. And I'm very, I'm very glad of that. I spent my whole career in manufacturing and I don't know if that's it, but. You just, you know, go in and you're working with people that have different, and you just, that's not part of the discussions. I mean, it might be, but it's always, it's always been very, I don't know, cordial. It's rarely spoken about because we've got enough other things to worry about. You know, we're trying to make product and keep things moving. And, um, that was actually brought up, uh, on a call I had today with a colleague. Um, in Austria, I work at a company that's from Austria and I was on a call with a colleague and he was, he was asking about the election and you know, he's like, Oh, you know, it's a big deal obviously. But, um, he said one of my other, one of my other colleagues from here in the U S had told him that it's really never like a big deal at work. Like we don't really, you know, battle over it or talk about it. I said, no, we don't. We just, you know, people know where you stand and it is what it is. And we come in and work. So that's the way work should be. I think that's
Andrew:It is the way that work should be. And I think, I think work environments used to be predominantly that in the past, right? It used to be that you could argue politics or religion at work. Um, you could go out for a beer with your co worker afterwards and the next day not feel like you need to shout each other down,
Jason:Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Andrew:some of that. Um, so, um, you know, and that's, that's what we want to add. We want to get back to that at Red Balloon. I mean, in one sense, I wish Red Balloon wasn't necessary. Red Balloon. I wish the big job boards and deeds and the zip recruiters of the world, actually based, um, uh, based on merit,
Jason:Yeah, yep,
Andrew:on hard work, right, then I wouldn't be needed. I'll go do something else. I got plenty of other things to do.
Jason:Yep. And I do know, I can think of multiple examples of people that I've gone to church with, specifically, that have worked in sometimes larger, much larger companies. and have been in leadership roles and they've been expected to go to meetings or the weather. I'm going to say being indoctrinated, you know, to some extent, I'm like, that's not, you know, you want to teach me how to be a better leader or manager or how to read a PNL. That's one thing, but yeah, I know. So, so yeah, it's, uh, I could see it as a need for, for people who are working in those environments. So,
Andrew:Yeah, and one more thing on that. We did a study and 90 percent of people in America over the last four years have had to do some form of DEI training, diversity, equity, inclusion, which diversity, equity, inclusion, those are actually fine words in and of themselves, but they've been weaponized and only 68 percent of people have done on the job training for their job. So there's been more focus on that and I actually think it's, you know, you talk about indoctrination, I think it's a liturgy. DEI is a liturgy to make you think a certain way about yourself, about your co workers and around the world around you. And unfortunately, um, that's not a way to actually make money. And so I do see the pendulum swinging back. I hope
Jason:Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, yeah, I mean, you see there, it is, there's large companies now that have pulled back from that, um, publicly. And yeah, it's based on merit. I mean, I, you know, I don't care what your skin color is. I don't care your political, religious beliefs. And I've worked with some amazing people. Again, we come together to solve similar problems that, and that in my social circles, I, I wouldn't honestly, be around them because that's, you know, that's kind of the way it goes, unfortunately, in my social circles. And now, because for whatever reason, so I have, I have been able to work with a much broader, diverse group of human beings in my life through work. And I've enjoyed that, um, being able to come together with different socioeconomic backgrounds, different religious backgrounds, people from different countries that grew up in places that I've never been in my life. And I learned so much from them. And, uh, yeah, when you come together with a common goal and cause and you respect each other's, you know, opinions and views and respect them. And yeah, that's, that's good.
Andrew:Yeah.
Jason:hey, tell us, Andrew, tell us a little bit about your faith background. Like, how did you come to know the Lord? And, uh, yeah, tell us, tell us about that and where you're at now. Like maybe, uh, if you're in a denomination or anything, want to talk about that?
Andrew:Right. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, so I grew up a Christian. My, my parents are Christians. My grandparents are Christians. Just a deep and blessed legacy of reading your Bible, being on your knees in prayer, being humble, Asking for God to, um, you know, bless the work of your hands. Um, when I was a very young man, even before I started my working career, when I was 14 and 15, I started to, like, you know what? Um, I could be in the children's program at church, or I could help with the children's program at church. And so, um, I actually, like, ran the children's choir when I was, like, 15 years old at our church and had like a hundred kids. I don't know what in the world the leadership was thinking like that was just a very bad idea. It worked out but Uh, but yeah, my older sister who's two years older than me. She was also involved Maybe that was the the linchpin and then we ran an awanas program You know, and so I had like I was the song leader for an Iwanas program and I ran the games
Jason:Yes,
Andrew:that was really my sweet spot and man so much fun and we and we actually got a bunch of neighborhood kids to come to the Iwanas down and this is down in California. And we had like 500 kids on a Wednesday night, man. It was mayhem. It was so awesome.
Jason:that's a big Iwana program.
Andrew:But we also saw a lot of kids, you know, they're memorizing the Bible, right? That's what I loved about it. They're, they're deeply, they're putting it in their heart. It was amazing. So, um, so anyway, love that. Kind of cranking along. Um, then I read some books from John Piper. Um, and I'm like, hmm, I wonder if I'm more, a little more refined. Formed than I thought I might have
Jason:Love
Andrew:Um, and no, then I started going to an OPC church up in San Francisco. Um, and look, the pastor there was very outspoken against homosexuality. And in San Francisco that does not play well. And so we fought through a picket line almost every morning, every Sunday morning, uh, Chuck McElhaney church up there in the city. Um, and that was a wild experience. You know, he got firebombed several times. Um, you know, you'd be in church with cat calls happening in the service. Like this was like, like you felt like, man, we're in a battle. Like it was crazy. So did that for a while. And then this is about the time I was kind of getting burned out on work, um, as 22 years old, ripe old age of 22. And I'm like, okay, I need to change. Um, and I'd been getting sermon tapes from Doug Wilson up in Moscow, Idaho, where I live now. And I thought, you know, I'm going to go up to his church and see if I like it, and if I do, I'll stay around, and if I don't, I'll find something else. So, got up here and just found a community of people that, like, okay, if the Bible says it, we need to figure out how do we apply that to our lives. Um, and, and really think about it, and just really thinking Christians. And so, um, I have now been here for, what, 25 years? Um, married my beautiful wife, and she's basically Dr. Krapuschetz, and I'm sub GED Krapuschetz, so we make a pretty good team. Um, but I paid for her degrees, so I feel like I get some credit.
Jason:you go.
Andrew:And then yeah, we have five kids and three big dogs and we live on 60 acres, 10 minutes from the office. She teaches at the kids Christian school. Um, I'm on a, a board of a National Association of Classical Christian Schools. Um, and we're just, yeah, we're just really kind of plugged into how do we help, um, the next generation be thinking Christians who are engaged in culture and being world leaders, um, and having the tools they need to be world leaders, um, where they are.
Jason:That's great. We have, uh, our, our kids have been involved and we have as well in a small Christian school here in town. Oh, 325, 350 students. I was on the board for eight years. My wife was an art teacher.
Andrew:Yep,
Jason:of our kids graduated from there. Well, I shouldn't say graduated. One is a senior. He's out, he's close. And then I have a grant.
Andrew:I like his chances.
Jason:Yeah. Right. And then I have a granddaughter who's a kindergartner there. So we're super
Andrew:Amazing. Yeah, that's super cool.
Jason:Yeah, that's, yeah, that's good. So, um, yeah, you guys are right out, right out in the middle of God's country. 60 acres of, yeah,
Andrew:It is, it is, it is amazing. You know, we have, um, I was telling a friend from San Francisco, I can see a hundred miles from my front porch. Um, his response was, well, I can see a hundred homeless people from my front porch. I'm like, well,
Jason:different
Andrew:not ideal. It's a very different world. Yeah. But you know, but it is, you know, there, there are pluses and minuses of being a small town. You know, I grew up in San Francisco, my wife grew up in kind of the Dallas and then the San Antonio area down in Texas. Um, and so, you know, as long as you travel a good bit, Um, you know, we've gotten our kids have gone all over the place. My oldest son did a year at New St. Andrews College, which is in town here at the Christian College. And then he's like, I need an adventure, um, because we travel so much. He's like, I need to, you know, get out of town. So he actually went off to African Christian University in Lusaka, Zambia. Um, and he was one of two white kids in the entire school,
Jason:Yeah, that's great.
Andrew:it was amazing, like it was such a good experience for him. So he was only there as kind of like a three month exchange, but it's amazing when you're kind of in the trenches for three months and dealing with like, okay, we don't have power this week. Um, here's what we do about that. Okay. We don't have, none of the ATM machines have cash in them and you can only,
Jason:What do we do? Right.
Andrew:And, you know, and just, you know, getting people with different doctrinal backgrounds and different cultural backgrounds and just being embedded with him and talking to these other kids was just a real blessing for him. And then my older, my second child, my daughter, she's out at Mississippi College in, uh, Um, just north of Jackson, Mississippi. Um, good Christian Baptist school out there, and she's, uh, doing an international business degree because she loves business. Um, and just totally crushing it out there. And then, my youngest three are all in school. I've got a junior, a, uh, freshman, and a seventh grader.
Jason:Okay. Busy. That's good.
Andrew:every day's busy.
Jason:So tell me a little bit about your spiritual disciplines, Andrew. Like what do you do personally to stay close to the Lord and grow in sanctification with him?
Andrew:Yeah, that's a great question. I wish more people would ask those questions of people because it's important. So, um, you know, I read the Bible through at least once every year. I feel like it is, uh, you know, if I can, you know, really in 15 minutes a day, you can get through the Bible in a year. Um, and there's probably very few things that are more important than just knowing, uh, learning the Word of God. Um, and, um, so that's a big one. Um, I, uh, I heard a sermon once and, uh, the pastor said couples that pray together stay together, uh, and so my wife and I, um, we try and, um, block out a nice chunk of time before we go to bed every night to spend time in prayer together, um, and making sure that we're, um, you know, on the same page, which is good for your relationship in addition to, um, you know, being good for your spiritual health. Um, so that's it. Um, obviously plugged into the church. Um, and then my old, uh, one of my sons, um, you know, as he's kind of growing up and trying to figure out how's he gaining wisdom, um, we've been memorizing some scripture together. So like, okay, let's grab a proverb a week. I know it's not a lot. For him, it's easy. For me, it's like, I'm old.
Jason:Yeah.
Andrew:I'm old. Yeah, it gets harder, but you know, just, you know, if you, if, if the Bible tells you to hide the word of God in your heart, then you should do it. You shouldn't just, you know, talk about it or sing about it. I think those things are good, but you should just deeply do it. Um, and then, um, so, you know, I, I am kind of a systematic guy. You got to be systematic in the way you do it. Um, and then God brings you stuff that is hard and that is also a massive blessing. So I'll give you an example of this. So obviously I talked a little bit about getting fired from the business that I'd helped start. Um, and you know, those, that was a, you know, valley of the shadow of death kind of moment for me. Cause it's like, okay, Lord, what am I even doing now? And I realized that. So much of my identity was tied up in my position as CEO of one of the largest businesses in town, right? It's just so easy for men
Jason:Yep. Yep.
Andrew:to get kind of go there and like, okay, so like, who am I? And I'm like, okay, my identity needs to be in Christ. It needs to not be in my salary and he's not being these other things. Um, but then as I started red balloon, I start getting these kind of thank you notes all over the place. My wife actually wrote an article in the Federalist and she said, my husband wasn't fired. He was redeployed. And if the king redeploys you and tells you go take that hill, who are you to push back and say no? It's like, well, honey, thank you. That, no, it's amazing. Right. Um, because that's true. Um, we have these periods and doing a startup in your mid to late forties, um, in the, you know, economy that we've had for the last four years, um, is a ton of work and praise the Lord for that. Because I will tell you, I have prayed a lot more in the last four years than I probably did in the previous 20. Um, just because it's like, okay, Lord. I am, I am seeking to be faithful in the way that I'm running my business. I'm seeking to be faithful in the way that I'm, you know, taking care of my family, um, blessing the community, blessing the larger, you know, body of Believers in this country with great employees so they don't get lawsuits and you know all the things associated with that But lord, you gotta bless it because if you don't bless it, I am out of my league. So So that has been you know, not the blessing I would have asked
Jason:right. No. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep Now let's do those times we grow the most I look back over my Life and every time I've grown spiritually the most it was in a dark difficult place and actually Yeah, I was just sharing that with somebody recently one of my children obviously younger than me that's going through a difficult time. And you know, I was able to go back and actually look at some of my journals from 21 years ago, 21 years ago, I've been journaling for that for more than that long during a time that was very dark, very difficult for me. And, um, so I was able to share that, you know, I've been through some similar things and it was difficult. It is when you're in it, it's, it's super difficult and dark, but, um, Two things. One is other people go through it. So I wanted to share that as you're sharing, right? Other people go through these times and so, you know, you feel like you're the only one, but you're not. So get with people that have gone through it that can come alongside you. And those are the, you know, God is still in control. You know, he has a plan for his children. He has a plan. That's a good plan, right? He says it's to, to do, to do good. It's difficult, but. Uh, those times are very hard, but he has a plan for us, um, you know, to glorify him. So yeah, that's, it's, it's important for people to see that, you know, that, that time for you is I'm sure super dark people though. I'm sure at times see you now and are like, Oh, CEO of this company is doing great family. It's, it's all amazing, right? It's like, yes, thank God. But there's some really deep dark valleys that you've gone through, that I've gone through, that people go through. So, So, yeah, when you go through those, man, find people that you can come alongside other believers to encourage you, put their arm around you, pray with you, pray for you, you know, and encourage you through that. It's important.
Andrew:the other thing I'd say is also write it down when God is faithful because he always is. Um, and so my wife does a really good job of, uh, every year for our anniversary, uh, we sit down and she writes it down. She's more disciplined about this than I am of like, how has God been faithful this year? Um, how have, you know, what were the big things that we, you know, mid year, we're like, I don't see how we're going to make it through
Jason:yeah,
Andrew:you know, we've got a kid who's like, you know, doing great, but really struggling with this area of life. Like, I don't know how to get through to them. Like, what do I say? What, you know, Lord, give me wisdom to actually speak into their lives the way that I should. And then you come out of it and you know, I read this Puritan and he said, you know, the people of God are the worst at remembering, um, God's faithfulness in the past. Um, because once we get through it, then it's gone, like it's behind us. But when you actually sit down and we just do it on the annual basis and be like, okay, so You know This seemed like an overcomable problem, an un overcomable problem, and God blessed that. Okay, well, how did He bless that? And, um, and sometimes it's answers to a prayer that are no. Like, we pray for this specific thing, and God says no. And then you get six months later, and you look back, and you're like, If God had said yes, My plan was a bad plan and I was playing very specifically and God was like, okay, that would be bad for you. It would, uh, you'd be in real trouble if I answered yes on this one, but you don't know that right now. And so, um, that's part of what it reinforces God's faithfulness. And, you know, as business people, you need that as much as anybody, especially as an entrepreneur or CEO, a leader, like, There's certain things you can't talk to your employees about, like you, you're carrying a different level of weight. Um, and if you don't do that exercise of looking back, how has God been faithful before? Because when you remind yourself of that, well, is there any reason he's gonna stop being
Jason:Right. Right.
Andrew:Right? Um, and that's, that is, um, so comforting and so relieving for someone who's carrying a lot.
Jason:Yeah. Yep. Now, I've went back to my journal many times and looked at those times when he got me through over and over and over and over again. Uh, Andrew, I want to talk a little bit about leadership, your leadership philosophy. What are those, like, give me, like, a quick Some of the core leadership principles that you just always, always, always go back to. They're kind of the pillars of how you lead, uh, your
Andrew:Yeah. Um, I guess the first one I'd point out is get over yourself. Yeah. Um, it is so easy for leaders, for bigger personalities, for people, you know, who are, get asked to be on podcasts, to uh, just, you know, just get a little excited about yourself. I remember I was, I was in the White House for a meeting, um, when the Trump administration was in last, and I remember, you know, this, Secret Service comes in, he's like, you sit down, you sit down, and like everybody, I'm like, oh fine, I'll sit on the couch, it's a nice couch, it's great, I don't mind. Uh, but I sat down on the couch, and then, you know, and then like this entourage comes through, and then Mike Pence walks through, and he was just kind of walking through. Um, and then this whole entourage behind him, and then the Secret Service, okay, you're allowed to get up. And I'm like, man, it would be so hard to have that not go to your head. Right as a man like when you like you like you're the king of the world and it's just hard for that not to Be the case. Well, if you're a business leader, it's a it's a smaller version of that, right? You don't have the white house entourage, but you definitely have a position of respect of authority Uh, people are looking up to you and so you need a constant reminder of the finitude of man, how fin, how finite we are and how infinite God is and kind of get over yourself. Um, and that actually just makes everything so much better. um, and uh, I have the sweetest wife in the world who is also a good reminder to me that like, no Andrew, you're not Superman. Ha, ha,
Jason:humbler. She's good at humbling.
Andrew:amen to that and I need it, I need it.
Jason:I think of my wife sometimes as the least impressed about me, right? Because all these other people, oh he's this.
Andrew:I'm so amazing, can't you see it? Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Yeah, you're fine, you're fine.
Jason:And your kids too, right? They're like, what,
Andrew:Oh yeah,
Jason:what? I don't know, you're dad. I know, yeah, you're
Andrew:Yeah, but you should probably lose some weight.
Jason:Right? Exactly.
Andrew:So, you know, I think that's it. I think that's the first thing is, is be humble. And that's going to help you see clearly. If you, if you are excited about yourself, it's hard to see clearly about how do you bless other people. Um, and then I guess the second one is always connected with that. It's always like, you know, love the Lord, your God with all your heart, soul and mind. And then your neighbors, yourself, like it's always connected to that. But if you be humble, And then, um, anytime you think, you know, I would like something, then take a step back and like, well, what other people like that? So I, you know, examples, and then this is a silly little example. It's like, I was driving to work and I'm like, I do not have time. And my car is an absolute disaster. I wish we had someone to wash my car. I'm like, huh. I bet you a lot of other people would like to have someone wash their car. And so it's like, well, I'm going to go find some college guy who needs a little extra work and I'm going to give him a hose and a bucket of water and some soap and he's going to wash all the employees cars while they're at work. Um, because wouldn't that be cool? Um, and so, and, and like, I will tell you, it costs like not very much money at all to have someone just out there doing it. And, um, and it was just like, You know, it's those kind of things that when you are not just thinking about yourself when you're trying to think about others, that's where you're going to get these great ideas. Well, I had one employee tell me, they're like, you know, I got a job offer for 10, 000 a year more. But man, when you did that car washing thing, it was just like, He cares about us, so I'm going to stick around, right? And so I think in business people, it's easy to, you know, get in the dollars and cents and like, well, you're an employee. You have to do what I say. There is this one to one correlation between I sign your paycheck, you do what I say. I get that. That's a true thing. But when you deeply care about people because you're actually thinking about them, when you're not just thinking about yourself, um, People will follow you anywhere. Um, and, and, you know, I don't do that perfectly, and I don't want to say that I do do it perfectly, but I'd say, um, don't be too excited about yourself, and do be excited about other people. If you can think about others before yourself, um, which is only possible when you're not super excited about yourself, then you're gonna be in a position to actually lead, and not just be a big, brash personality.
Jason:I think about the people in my life that, um, I love talking to the most. And it's those guys, those men, most of them, you know, they're men in my life who always, when I see them ask me about me, like they care about, like, what's going on. Like, it's not, they've been, I've heard a term, they bend the conversation back towards you and not themselves. And you know, there's a, there's a couple of guys and one in particular I've been friends with for. 20 some years. He's a, he's a pastor. He was a pastor of our church, but he's a close, close, dear friend of mine. And he does that just all the time. And he does it with his parishioners. And he just always is like, he cares about what's going on in their lives. He does it with kids. He does it with my kids. And I'm like, and I told him, actually recently him and I spent some time together and he just, he's always done it. And I've tried to learn that from him. And I've told him that I said, I've seen you do that. And I've seen what, how, what it means to me as just a human being. And, uh, so I've tried to do that. And like you said, I don't do it perfectly because it's like a fight all the time to get out of your own head. But,
Andrew:That's
Jason:yeah, you know, but to go, whatever, walking around your business or, you know, I walk around my plant, I try to just slow down and, you know, ask people what's going on. Like literally like what's going on, like how things going. So, yeah, that's so important. That's so
Andrew:Well, just as a leader, if you, if you actually care about people, and I mean, the nice part is, you know, all the best leadership principles are in Proverbs, they're in the
Jason:of them.
Andrew:right? And so if, you know, Christ was washing his disciples feet, um, and he had no problem saying, look, I am, um, I'm the leader, right? You call me master, you call me teacher, and that's right. It's okay. It's okay to be the boss. You don't have to have this faux humility. Um, but you do need to actually deeply care about other people and get over yourself. Um, and so hierarchy is not a bad thing, but hierarchy where it is, uh, you know, almost a Muslim construct where it's power down rather than, um, service, um, you know, when you can do that, um, it will make you a lot more money as a business person because people want to work for someone like that. You don't have the turnover costs. You don't have, you know, people are willing to strap in with you as long as you're willing to strap in with them.
Jason:right. That's 100 percent true Yeah, absolutely. What's uh, Andrew? So you're the CEO founder of your business. So you get a lot of leeway I guess on how you lead and I but I'm curious on I'm sure you have people on your team who aren't Believers or agnostic or you know atheists whatever but how do you so how do you honor Christ in the work that you do as? a CEO like how do you You Practically do things that you are striving to glorify him in your work. Like what, what do you do?
Andrew:No, that's a great question. I guess I'll give you a couple of examples. I guess that's the best way for me to describe the principle. Is when I hire someone and you know, I let them know, you know, and I try and be the final interview. I say I'm an unapologetic conservative Christian in the way that I run my business. It's not a prerequisite. It's not a weird thing. I think we talked about this, right? But then I give them examples. Okay, what does that mean? Okay, so what it means is we don't talk beyond each other's back here. We have a zero gossip policy at our company. Um, and so if you come in my office and you tell me that I probably am screwing up on something or I'm an idiot about something, I might give you a raise. Because I know that I have blind spots. And I know I need people who have the guts to come in the CEO's office and say, Hey, Andrew, you're screwing up on this. Or like, are you, like, are you really thinking this through? Right? Uh, but if they come in my office and say, you know, So and so over here is doing a terrible job and they really smell funny and I don't like them, Uh, my first question will be, well, what did they say about that? And they're like, what are you talking about? I'm like, well, no, but like, seriously, Because I do not want a work environment. Where people feel comfortable talking behind each other's back and so I'll often in that scenario be like, you know What once you wait on and wait here a minute I'll be right back and I'll go grab that person they were talking about and I'll bring them in my office I'm like, hey, why don't the three of us have a great little conversation about this right now and I will tell you that is a very awkward Conversation which I actually personally really enjoy. I think it's funny Um, but, that nips that stuff in the butt, I will tell you that right now, like, that person will never talk behind someone else's back because they never want to happen, have that happen again. And so, when I'm hiring people and I'm like, okay, this is a Christian work environment. These are some of the ramifications, because they don't know, you know, they hear Christian work environment, they're like, oh, you're a
Jason:Yeah.
Andrew:That might be true. I am a little bit weird, but
Jason:We're going
Andrew:But hold with
Jason:going to make me pray every day and take
Andrew:That's right, that's right. That's right. We're not gonna do that stuff But we are gonna have a zero gossip policy or we are going to You know, I had I remember there was a non christian gal at our office and her mom was going through some really tough Medical stuff and I said hey totally up to you, but I'd really love to pray for you You Um, and I'd love to pray for you at the company meeting and I'd like to invite anybody as a totally optional thing To come and pray for you in this situation and she just starts crying. She's like I needed that so bad And so we're praying for her And you know her mom made it through and uh, you know, I don't know that she came to the lord But I do know that that had such a deep impact and does it take guts for someone? In our society where that's told that's a weird thing. Well, the only way that that worked You Is because I didn't have this brazen faux christianity Where I was, you know handing out tracks, but then a jerk the rest of the time, right? And and we and we know those people right they're
Jason:call jerks for Jesus. That's right.
Andrew:for jesus, right exactly because if you're jerks for jesus that doesn't play they're like, oh, yeah, you're just putting on a show You're doing something to try and but i'm like no I have deeply tried to love my employees, to take care of my employees, um, in every little aspect. And right now you need prayer and you know that and I need, and I know that. Um, and, and I'd say that's where leaders need to get to. And when they're not loving on their people the rest of the time, then they don't have permission to do things like
Jason:That's right.
Andrew:So, so anyway, so when I'm working with employees that don't, you know, they're not Christians or whatever, my job is not to jam my worldview down their throat. My job is to love them. Um, live my values out loud. I did have a lot, I've had a lot of people come to the Lord in my businesses because they grabbed me after work and they'd be like, okay, Andrew, I don't know what you, what your deal is, but all you people are so joyful. Can we grab a beer after work and like, talk about like, where's this coming from? Right. That's where you want to be, um, as an organization. And when you do that, then, then everything else is going to be just fine. Um, and you, and you really just can lean into it that way.
Jason:That's good. The, uh, no gossip policy reminds me of the school board that I was on. They have a principal called the Matthew 18 principal. And it's the same, right? Meaning this is how, this is how we handle conflict. And so I've, uh, I do the same thing. I don't, I haven't done what you talked about. Like, Hey, let's go, let's go bring that person in here. But I have said when I have someone come to my office to complain about somebody else, I'm like, okay, I hear you understand. So first step is you need to go talk to them about it. And then if you guys can't work it out, I'm here as a mediator here to, here to help. But no, like 85 percent of the time, All of a sudden it's not such a big deal. If you expect them to go address it, they can live with it. So,
Andrew:That's right. And I just tell people if, if any conversation about this should either be having a conversation with someone who's part of the problem or someone who's part of the solution. Um, if you're just talking to a coworker because it feels nice to complain about someone else, which it does.
Jason:does. Right.
Andrew:yeah, it really does.
Jason:it wasn't Proverbs. I'm going to paraphrase this, but in, in Proverbs, it talks about it being like a sweet morsel gossip is like a sweet morsel, but it's poison. And I
Andrew:It's like honey on the tongue and, and bitterness in the
Jason:Yeah. Yeah.
Andrew:Yeah, for sure. Um, so anyway, so as I work with people who, you know, aren't Christian in the work environment, I'm just very forward and upfront. And good news is my lawyer told me that's actually a huge protection. Because if you full disclose something to someone, it's really hard to sue you about that, right? So if I say, hey, this is who I am, it's like that, you know, cup from McDonald's contents might be hot. And so the CEO is hot. I mean, wait, um, but,
Jason:And they had to do that because of a lawsuit, so that's true.
Andrew:is it doing a lawsuit? No, but like, as a, as a Christian, as a conservative, I'm like, this is who I am. This is how I run the company. If you're comfortable here, you are welcome. Um, but then they can't come back to me later and say, well, we just found out you're a Christian cause you're praying at dinner at the Christmas party. I'm like, no, I told you, you can't bring anything to me. Um, and so that's, it's a legal protection as well.
Jason:Uh, so on the same topic of leadership, who do you Follow who do you read podcast books? I always try to get that from people I interview so, you know It just helps myself and audit my audience find other resources. So who do you? Who do you recommend?
Andrew:Yeah, um, I try and read a lot of books. I try and read two books a month. One business book and one, um, I'll say cultural, spiritual book. Um, and whether that's a Puritan, whether that's a, you know, a John Piper. Um, uh, and, and so, um, I am reading a lot of books, um, all the time. Um, I just, I just finished story brand again. It's a, you know, business book on branding because I think it's really important. Um, I, I would, uh, it always recommend that cause there's an interesting Christian principles in there. Um, before that, uh, you know, you read some of the Jim Collins books, um, Malcolm Gladwell books. So I love reading those. Right. Um, and then, and then I'd love trying to digest something where it's like, and, and, and I'll put the spiritual cultural, do a lot of histories. Um, because I think part of the mistakes, yeah, people make is not paying attention to what has happened before. Um, you know, Ecclesiastes talks about nothing new under the sun, everything that's happened before, is happening now, has happened before, so pay attention. So, um, I don't listen to a lot of podcasts, I'll tell you that right now, um, I will sometimes listen to Tucker Carlson, partly because he's a customer of Red Balloon,
Jason:Oh, nice.
Andrew:him entertaining, and, uh, he is entertaining, so, um, and you learn stuff out from that, so. Um, but yeah, there you go.
Jason:What? So what's your favorite John Piper book? Cause I'm a huge John Piper fan as well. I
Andrew:man, I'm trying to think which one is a favorite. That puts me on a really tough spot. Um, I think The Pleasures of God was probably one of my first ones that I've now read multiple
Jason:Yes. Me too. Yep.
Andrew:right? It was like, okay, so, and it just, and what I love about John Piper is his view of God is so big. There's no room for human ego.
Jason:Yeah.
Andrew:And I think that, you know, tying back to what we were talking about earlier, um, when you really have, uh, an understanding of how big God is, how amazing he is, um, how overwhelming he is, there's not a lot of room for self left in that. Um, and I think that is, uh, healthy, especially for any leader out
Jason:Yep. His whole idea around Christian hedonism
Andrew:Yes. Right. You're just so like, so passionate.
Jason:Yep. And he, that's how he preaches too. I love listening
Andrew:Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally.
Jason:Yeah. Um, okay. So let's say somebody comes to you. They're a first time leader first time. So they've gone from individual contributor. They got their first promotion supervisor, team leader, manager, or something like that. And they're like, Andrew, I'm going to buy you a cup of coffee or go out and have a beer. Please give me your advice. And I know this is generic cause you don't know what industry they're in or whatever, but just as a first time leader, like what would you. What advice would you give them on how to kind of approach that what not to do what to do?
Andrew:Yeah. You know, uh, the same advice I'd probably give to anybody is you have, uh, one mouth and two ears, so use them appropriately. Um, you need to be, you need to be listening to your people. Um, it's very easy for leaders to always, you know, you want to come in, as a CEO, you'll, it's tempting to come into the room as the smartest person in the room. And you need to not come in, in as the smartest person in the room. You may be the one who needs to make a decision. But you need to let other people be the smartest people in the room and you need to not have it just be about you. Now, they're going to debate, they're going to bring different ideas, need to be listening, digesting, um, and, um, and then once you've taken all the information in, you sometimes just need to make that call, um, and you need to own it all the way down because you're the leader and that's what it looks like. But you start by listening, um, and not just, um, having everyone listen to you. Um, so I, I'd say that's probably the first thing and, and part of that is. You know, you asked about books and podcasts. I mean, you need to be digesting wisdom from other people all the time. Um, if you don't think you need wisdom from outside of you, um, then you're probably an arrogant, uh, about to be failure. So, um, you know, I've had a lot of pastors in my life who are super busy people, and I said, you know, look, you gotta eat lunch anyway. So Um, I would love to just buy you lunch, um, you know, I never ask them to mentor me, I just say, hey, you need to eat lunch, let me buy you lunch. And then I'd bring like 12 questions that'd be like, okay, so how would you handle, how would you think about this? And what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to build a rubric of how do they think about these kinds of problems? How do they digest information? and turn it into a response that is biblical, right? And so that's what you're trying to accomplish in these, you know, and I never said will you mentor me and they mentored me Anyway, uh tricked them Um, and so that's that that's what I that's what i'd say is is, you know, make sure you're listening a lot make sure Um, you don't let it go to your head. Um and just digest as much input and free and free advice as you can get
Jason:Yeah, I heard of Something years ago, and I've said this many times on this podcast, but somebody told me years ago Listen learn then lead like go into a new situation Even if you're experienced later you go into a new business, you don't know the nuances I mean that whatever they're doing things you're probably gonna drive some change lead some change But at least understand maybe why they're doing what they're doing. There's a reason behind it. So
Andrew:Yeah, a hundred percent
Jason:Yeah, the other one I just I just shared this I think on a clip recently and it was If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. I like
Andrew:A hundred percent, especially as the leader, right? You know, even Steve Jobs, um, said, why would you hire smart people and then tell them what to
Jason:Yeah, exactly. Yep
Andrew:But it's so easy to just feel like, man, I, the way that I'm going to lead, the way that people respect me is if I always have the best idea and I'm always talking the most and the loudest. Um, and, and it's just not how God built the world.
Jason:Yep When you think about like legacy um And you're probably close to my age and you you get to a point, you know We're not like getting ready to retire, but you start thinking about that. You're like, you know, what what are you andrew? What do you think about? when, you know, the Lord calls you away from maybe full time, um, the level of intense work that you're doing right now. Like what do you hope people remember you by and that legacy that you, uh, that would, you would leave behind?
Andrew:Yeah, um, I'll be honest. Retirement for me, this is a dream retirement. I don't know if this will happen. It would be so fun to be able to go to young couples in the church who just bought their first home and it's like a total dive. And be like, hey, guess what? I'm going to remodel your kitchen for you. Because that is just the body of Christ working things out. Um, and you know, and I'm going to train a young guy because I love construction, I love, you know, electrical and plumbing and all those things like, hey, wouldn't it be fun if for eight hours a day you guys are off, you know, at your job and you come back and I'm just making headway on your kitchen and I'm just paying for everything because I want to be a blessing to you. Uh, that would be really fun to me. I don't know if that'll happen. Um, but, yeah. You know, I want, you know, and I'm going to focus on Red Balloon a little bit because I have now sold businesses six different times. So I've had six successful exits over the years, um, which is great. Um, it's fun to get a big check. It's not fun to then lose control and get fired from your own business, but, um, it is, it is fun to get that big check. Um, I want to grow Red Balloon to a billion dollar business that is, is a major force in redeeming the world of work. for in America and the world. Um, I want God to use this business. Um, because you know, if you read Sun Tzu the art of war, um, it talks about, um, if you're going to go and try and, um, tackle an objective, you need that objective to be both strategic and feasible, right? So New York city is super strategic, but not super feasible. Whereas, you know, Bowville, Idaho would be, uh, super achievable and not super strategic. And so you want to try and find things that are strategic and feasible. Part of the reason that I am focused on the workplace and workplace culture in America is because I feel like, you know, if you look at mainstream media or even mainstream universities, like those are cultural, they're culturally entrenched and they're pushing a worldview really, really hard. And I don't know that they can, you know, be redeemed in the same way. I mean, God can do anything, but, um, but I look at the workplace, you know, and you talked about, you've worked at businesses where. You didn't have that woke agenda being jammed down your throat all the time. Well, I think the vast majority of people in business are still capitalists. They still believe in meritocracy. They still believe in winning. Um, and they don't believe in a lot of the stuff that, that it's been kind of coming down the pipe. And as such, they're just kind of doing it to go along to get along. And so I, but so I do think it's achievable to redeem the world of work. And I also think it is strategic because it is where most people spend the vast majority of their waking hours and it has a huge impact on their worldview and every other area of their life. Right? If I've, you know, I talked about the thank you notes earlier. One of the thank you notes I got guy, he says, Hey, my family's going to church again because the job that I got through Red Balloon. So, um, you know, we all, uh, you know, there's so many problems to solve in the world. And you can either sit and wring your hands about them, or you can just pick the one that God has put you in front of. And God has put me in front of the world of work, um, and I want to, you know, if, Um, if I'm, you know, working until I feel like I'm gonna, you know, die in hardness as a pack animal, um, but I, I want to redeem the world of work. I want people to be free at work so that they can be free in every other aspect of their life so that they can think clearly about the world, so they can raise their kids well, so they can go to church, so they can invest in their communities, um, and if I can have some little hand in that, then I will die a happy person. So I mean, honestly, that's, that's the immediate legacy. The long term. I want faithful kids. This is part of the reason I'm really investing in Christian education. I want faithful kids who know their Bible, um, know what's right and wrong, know where to not compromise, and know how to lead in culture, um, because we're gonna need Christian leaders, um, who are willing to fight if they need to, um, willing to die if they need to, but know their Bibles all the way down. So, um, if that's the legacy and then nobody remembers Andy Krapuschetz, the bald guy with a weird last name, I'm good with that.
Jason:Yeah. No, that's it. I mean, I'm, we have two granddaughters now and it's just such a joy even to start to see them. You know, the one is five, one's one and a half, but the five year old, you know, she's in a Christian school. She's in Sunday school. She's in church and you know, she's talking about Jesus and singing songs about God. And it's like, man, nothing makes your heart grow.
Andrew:That's exactly
Jason:What a blessing. So, hey, before we wrap up, Andy, how can people, what's the best way to get ahold of you?
Andrew:Yeah, so you can go to redballoon. work, um, and if you're an employer and you want awesome employees that probably aren't going to sue you, uh, you should come to redballoon. work. Uh, I, I mean, I'll tell you 75 percent of employers in the U. S. have had a labor based lawsuit in the last five years. So it's real. Um, so redballoon. work is where you can find awesome people. We do recruiting services, we have the job board. Um, and then we have Applicant Tracking Systems. So we have hot software that will help manage your entire hiring process for you. And we will do it in a way that is distinctly Christian whether you know it or not. Um, so I would encourage you to come and check that out. Um, the other thing is I would say follow me on LinkedIn. That's probably where I'm the most active. Um, because I try and do a, a daily post, um, talking about culture building, talking about hiring well, talking about firing well. And just call all the aspects of, of running a business and leading people. So now follow me on LinkedIn, go to red balloon. org and my encouragement to everybody is go out and do stuff to the glory of God and he'll take care of the details.
Jason:That's right. No matter where you're at, that's where you're there to serve and do it to the glory of God. So, hey, brother, thank you for being on. It's been a joy to get to know you and learn more about, uh, yeah, Red Balloon and how God has used you and is continuing to use you for his glory. So thank you very much. Appreciate it.
Andrew:Well, thank you for having me. And I hope everybody is edified and has a wonderful day.
Jason:amen. And thank you for tuning in again, this month, I pray that you and yours will have a very blessed Christmas season and that you will join me once again. I new year's day of 2025 to hear from another leader who is striving to honor Christ through their work.
