Biblical Leadership @ Work
Biblical Leadership @ Work
Dave Hataj - Business Owner, Author, PHD, & Journeyman Machinist
In this episode of the Biblical Leadership at Work podcast, host Jason Woodard interviews Dave Hataj, second-generation owner of Edgerton Gear. Dave shares his journey from machinist to ministry and back to the family business, developing a refined and biblical perspective on work and leadership.
Dave is passionate about manufacturing and founded a nonprofit to educate young people about trade opportunities. He authored "Good Work: How Blue Collar Business Can Change Lives, Communities, and the World."
Discover Dave's spiritual disciplines, leadership principles, and the Craftsman with Character initiative, designed to transform high school students’ lives through character development and skilled trades mentorship. Tune in to learn how biblical values can be integrated into leadership and business for a significant impact.
Dave's LinkedIn
Craftsman With Character
Good Work book
Video of podcast
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Welcome to the biblical leadership at work podcast. I am your host, Jason Woodard. On this month's episode, we will meet Dave. Hey tag. Dave is a second generation owner of a small manufacturing company in Wisconsin. He has an incredible story of his journey from becoming a young journeyman machinist. To pursuing full-time ministry and then reluctantly. Moving back to take over the family business. Over the decades. Dave has developed a refined and biblical perspective of work and leadership. He is passionate about manufacturing. And the blue collar workforce. And he founded a nonprofit aimed at helping young people learn about the many opportunities within the trades. He is also the author of good work, how blue collar business can change lives, communities and the world. I absolutely loved doing this interview. And recently I had a chance to visit Dave in person and see his shop. And meet his cool dog. Dave is the real deal. And I pray that you are as inspired by his passion, wisdom and humility. Desire was.
Jason:Dave Haytag, brother, I am super excited to have you on the podcast today. We just spent probably 20 minutes talking before we hit record. We have a lot in common and I look forward to introducing you to my audience. Brother, thank you.
Dave:Hey, thanks for being here, Jason. I, yeah, we talk and shop and couplers and gears and all that fun stuff. So yeah, we do have a lot in common.
Jason:would probably bore most of my audience. So So Dave, you have a really fascinating story from, you know, growing up, college, career transitions. So take some time to walk the audience through that. What's your, what's your background brother?
Dave:Well, it's, it's pretty funny. Cause I was working in the shop since age five. And I remember running a big manual hacksaw and just, my sisters and I would have to come down to the shop after school because my parents had just started this little gear business in Edgerton, Wisconsin. And by the time I was 18, um, pretty much could run any machine in the shop, the saws, the mills, the lathes, the gear hovers, and back then everything was manual. I was an, I was a journeyman by the time I was 22. And by that time I'd had enough, I was just like, I'm sick of this. There must be something more in my worldview of manufacturing was I really took it for granted. I thought, well, my dad runs a gear shop. Who cares about gears? There must be something more exciting out there. Right. Um, but the, the issue, the bigger issue was, We have a long history of alcoholism, uh, in my family on both sides. And my grandpa was actually, he died a homeless person in Chicago, my dad's dad. And so my dad struggled with this, you know, kind of the same issues, but, but he, he was functional. I mean, he started this business and he built it on quality, value, and service. Uh, but back in those 70s, uh, early 80s, uh, a lot of shops, a lot of businesses, you just drink, you know, you go out to lunch and you drink and you'd have, my dad actually had a quarter barrel of beer in the lunchroom fridge. He took out all the shells and put a quarter barrel there instead, but it was a pretty decadent environment because. Um, pornography was everywhere. Um, just a really kind of hard, dark place. And I was, I was headed down the same path and I was drinking heavily as a teenager, I think first time I was drunk was a family wedding at age eight. And so by the time I was, yeah, well, people were giving me screwdrivers and I just thought it was orange juice and everybody was laughing because it was,
Jason:Wow.
Dave:watched this little kid stay around and everybody was laughing like whatever. And I felt good. I didn't, I didn't know, understand the effects, but by the time I was 15, 16, I was drinking really heavily and smashed a couple of cars, um, you know, a 17, 18 and really became, suicidal, dark, depressed, had no, no sense of purpose in life whatsoever. And, and then I'm working in the shop. I was doing my apprenticeship at age 19. And I, and I was also doing, uh, long distance running. I discovered that was kind of my escape. So I was doing marathons and other stuff. And I, uh, There was one day I was just really depressed, running woe is me. What's the point of life? And not to be too weird. Um, but a voice came out of the bushes and I thought someone was playing, pranking me. And it was, uh, it was so real. The voice said you are not alone. And, and I just, I literally stopped and I'm looking around like, come on, what's going on. And I remember I could show you on the road exactly where it happened.
Jason:at. Yeah.
Dave:I stopped and the voice came again said you're not alone and everything and all the crap in my life from Earliest childhood kind of flashed through my eyes and I knew at that moment God was real and I just floated home and I was filled with this insane sense of love and purpose and Um, the, the tricky part was my dad was a angry atheist. My mom was a developed believer, so I had to navigate between them and I, and it was so weird, Jason, that I, I went home and I started reading my Bible in secret
Jason:Yeah.
Dave:because I, I didn't wanna, you know, tick my dad off. Like, oh no, my kids become one of these religious zealots, you know, and, and I waited for them to go on vacation for about a month or two, and then I went to our local church. And, uh, walked in and actually met my best friend, uh, at that and we're still really, really good friends. But that started me on a journey that, you know, when a young guy becomes all zealous and excited for God, you know, what's the career path, right? Oh, you gotta go to the ministry. Ministry. Exactly. Everybody had to be pegged to be a pastor. And I did youth ministry, um, ended up getting out of the shop and going to California with Athletes in Action. And he got a job in a big church. And I actually went out there, Athletes in Action, to do triathlons, which was kind of a big thing getting off the ground back then. And I got out there and I wanted to get as far away from my family as possible. And got a job as a pastor to college students, even though I'd never been to college. God's sense of humor. And I think they hired me as the Wisconsin Hick. You know, I'm in Newport Beach, California and I'm, yeah, yeah, I'm telling my hunting stories and my dog stories and maybe they just saw me as, you know, kind of some sort of. Comic or comic. Really? Yeah. But the, the thing is, the group exploded to a point where it went from 10 to 125 people or so, college students.'cause all I knew was to read my Bible worship and to pray. And I didn't have any other training besides that. And the problem was the, uh, I got in over my head. I was 24 at that time, and I'm dealing with. some major issues with a lot of students and I just burned out and I won't get into the whole details of that story but I ended up resigning or being forced to resign for some very weird reasons that kind of really tainted my view of church at that time. But mentors said, you need to go to university. You got to get a four year degree. And that's the drum that people have been beating for decades, right? You got to go to college, got to go to college. So I did went to the university of California, Irvine, got a degree in social science, which I don't still not really sure what that is. Um, and, and I'm actually glad I went because, um, it kind of gave me an interesting worldview. But the church experience was so damaging that one of my mentors said, you know, you need to really figure out what you believe, because I think so much of my faith was tied up in church, but not necessarily that real deep relationship with God. So I ended up going up to, I am newly married, went up to, uh, Regent College up in Vancouver, British Columbia. And that, that point. At that time, people like J. I. Packer and Gordon Fee and James Houston, some really kind of big name professors at the time, um, Eugene Peterson and some of these folks, you know, he wrote the message and some of these different things. Um, they were all there and people kept saying, oh yeah, you're going to be a pastor. And I'm like, no, God, no, I'll do anything but. And so the funny story was at the, at the end of the, I think it was the first semester Or second semester. This must have been the second semester. I took one of those classes, like, what's your gifting, what's your back on, what God's called me to do. And I'd been doing, you know, short term mission work in Tijuana and inner city LA and running youth groups, etc. And at the end of the class, it came back with your, kind of your summary of what you're meant for. And it actually said, quote, you're ideally suited to run a small family run manufacturing business.
Jason:bizarre. You're like, really? That's interesting.
Dave:it wasn't just real. He's like, no, no, no, don't send me back to the shop, please. Uh, but I have to take that seriously. And we, my wife went home until my wife and she cried because she wanted to be in your family. But I don't think she really understood what this entailed. And so the school allowed me to do a master's project of what would it. look like to bring biblical values in a very dark place. Because my whole in my faith at that time was, you know, Jesus, I can, I, I've seen you working to doing some miraculous things in many different places, but there's no way you can help my family or be relevant in a, in a gear shop,
Jason:right.
Dave:collar, you know, didn't make any sense to me. So we came back, I studied systems theory, family stuff, and you know, culture, how to change a company and all of that. And I, I, I half joke, but it's not, it's more than a joke. Um, the first two years were hell and then it got worse. Yeah,
Jason:you're a student Studying at the shop or you're back at the shop when you say the first two years were hell That was when you came
Dave:I am back at the shop. Right.
Jason:time with dad with dad.
Dave:with dad and dad and mom had begged me to come back for. five years, six years. And they finally gave up that I was ever going to come back. And so when I proposed the, and my dad was starting to have health problems. So I said, okay, to honor him and my mom, and to really have the sense of calling to come to a blue collar shop, um, to see if, if, you know, the gospel is relevant, even here, uh, it had to be, I had to get back into it. And I, and I thought it'd be two years. We'd sell the company. And then God would really show what we're supposed to do
Jason:Yeah.
Dave:for the rest of our lives. And that's been 32 years. That was 32 years ago and I'm still here.
Jason:Can't get anyone to buy it.
Dave:yeah. And so it's, it's, um, it's been a journey. I mean, those first, the first 10 years were really hard because we're trying to change a culture. And my dad had hired fellow alcoholics and there's a lot of infighting. We had three employees that, that took our comp, that basically took our computer records, our customer records, and try to start their own business and slandered us horribly. And it was just this incredible hard journey of, you know, we have three little boys now and the stress of the business and the church didn't know what to do with us, the local church. They, you know, people often looked at us like, and I remember Christian friends saying, you're selling out, you're not going into the ministry, right? You're going back to the family business and they don't see any relevance to. manufacturing or the trades or anything in the sense of what God could work through us and in us through. So at the 10 year mark, um, things really started to turn around and I started going, okay, I still want it out. I'll be honest. But, but over those years, my theology really started to change where I'm realizing there being in a business in a small community or any kind of business, we can have an amazing impact on people in our
Jason:Yeah, that's right.
Dave:and, and that led eventually, uh, 2010, I went into a doctorate program of all things to figure out how do you, how do you minister to kids, high school kids that are blue collar, who aren't college bound, um, how do you help them find their place in life? And, and out of that, which I'm sure we'll talk about, uh, came this initiative called Craftsman with Character.
Jason:Yep I want to say for especially for people You that have never experienced working in a manufacturing facility that is literally spiritually Emotionally, culturally and physically dark and negative. And I have Dave, my first, my first job in a factory, I was a welder and, um, you know, out of high school, wasn't sure what to do all the same type of thing. And I knew how to, I knew how to weld. I'd done that in career center. And so I, you know, going to this place. And it was extremely normal for guys to leave at lunch and go get a 40. ounce, for those that don't know what a 40 right, a 40 ounce or a beer at the Shell station and then drive around the country block drinking that. I, I came into work, uh, I remember coming in one morning and my supervisor and team lead were there before me and they're in the paint booth smoking a joint. I mean, they're not hiding this. This is, you could buy any illicit drug in the plant that you wanted to. You know, these guys for fun would stick empty 20 ounce pop bottles full of acetylene into steel tubing and run it down the line. And when the guy started welding on that section and blow the tubing up, that
Dave:Oh my
Jason:That was, you know, that was prank.
Dave:Oh my! Jeez!
Jason:So seriously, man, I'm, I'm like 19 and I'm 19 years old. And these guys are, you know, a lot of them a lot older, but just. Just an awful, horrible place. And so, to, you know, to have someone come in, in a leadership role, and say, We're going to bring light and truth here. And, you know, we're not going to be forcing people to take Bible studies at break. That's not what this is about. This is about bringing, the goodness of God, the beauty of God, the beauty of Christ into the workplace and translating that, you know, applying it to a business culture. And so, you know, I can, I can literally, I can literally taste and hear and see, I can, what, what that
Dave:I know.
Jason:because I've been there. And I just want to, you know, make sure people understand. And I'm sure some people have, but, If you haven't worked in a, and fortunately they've become more and more rare just culturally, you know, I think people don't necessarily want, but it was, yeah, just like you said, pornography everywhere, like all over the walls, like just absolutely no shame. So, so yeah, that's, uh, that's,
Dave:Well,
Jason:yeah, that's a
Dave:well, in that, yeah. Well, and like I said, that was the whole of my faith because we can go to church and we can, you know, sing hymns and whatever. if the gospel is the gospel, if God is, does really care about the lost, you know, the blue collar world to me is that lost people group that, that we would send missionaries to overseas to minister to, but we have a, we have a whole segment of our population that has no idea what the kingdom looks like. Or, uh, you know, so they, so get it in a shop and contextualize the gospel. Like you said, we're not preaching at them and I don't demand people share my faith. I'm open about my faith, but, but I. But I demand we have shared values. And I think when you boil down the kingdom of God, it's, it's values of goodness and excellence of love and truth and honesty and dignity, um, and community and all of those things that, that a lot of blue collar folks have no idea what that looks
Jason:That's right. Yeah. And to be able to have the opportunity to come in and love them and work with them and respect them and, you know, honor those guys and just treat them as we're called to treat people by Christ. Love God, love others and love them. I mean, truly love them. It's, it's, uh, yeah, it's, it's a bright light in a dark place. So,
Dave:Yeah. If you want to challenge,
Jason:Yeah. Yeah.
Dave:yeah,
Jason:um, before we go on to the next question. So you wrote a book about that experience. You wrote a book and I love it. And I gave, so my son is a auto mechanic and a shop owner. Um, in his late twenties, him and his wife own a shop. So I'm like, you have to read this, uh, talk a little bit about your book. And, um, so
Dave:Yeah. Well, yeah, thanks. So I got sick, um, and this was way pre COVID. It was like probably 2016, 17. Um, just stressed. I mean, I was, most of it was, was just absolutely burned out and exhausted. Just the stress of the business. I was going back to school, um, raising three boys. Uh, you know, we were actually doing short term mission trips to Honduras. Uh, and I just reached the breaking point. And so I, so I actually had to withdraw from the shop and only work. Um, you know, most pastors would call it sabbatical, but in the working world, the sabbatical was, I only worked, um, 35 hours a week
Jason:It says that it's 65 or 70.
Dave:Yeah, exactly. So the first year I did everything wrong. I tried to rest and the, by the second year, um, the doctor said, you need to rest even more.'cause I came back too early. Uh, so that second year I got a lot of rest and I was starting to feel better. And like, well, what do I do? And my shop needed from, as a leader, I needed to pull away to help my leaders,
Jason:Yeah. Yep. Yep.
Dave:you know, get out of their way. So like, well, now what do I do? I can't go back to what I used to do because one, it was, it was just too much, but two, I need to give room to my leaders. So that, so I started to write and I really felt, it was kind of funny because I thought, Because your mortality, you know, back then I was, I was in my late, well, mid fifties and I'm like, okay, yeah, I, I, I have, if I don't get this figured out, I, I, uh, my, uh, I have a short timeframe here left on earth if I don't figure this out. So thinking about my mortality, about what would I say to my boys? Um, all, all grown sons, great kids, all believers. Um, and what would I say to my employees as far as the legacy of the company and how I think it should be run from a faith perspective. So I started writing to them and, and just, and, and writing about the importance of, of just excellence in a business and that in kingdom values of truth and excellence and compassion and what it means to be a leader, um, and taking a hard look at yourself and, um, how you do that in really a kingdom way. And. I finished it and I sent it to one of my mentors and he said, Oh, this has potential. And within two months, um, all of a sudden I'm on a call with a potential agent. He picked it up. He goes, I think it's really good. And he shopped it around and he said, let's work on a manuscript together. And I, they edited it and cleaned it up, shopped around and Moody publishers picked it up. And, uh, it got, it got published right during when COVID broke out. So sales were kind of
Jason:all
Dave:It was kind of rough, but it's called Good Work, How Blue Collar Business Can Change Lives, Communities, and the World. And I really believe that, that we overlook the business community and the blue collar world. Because that's the foundation of our, of all communities. It's blue collar people putting in roads and plumbing, electric, you know, building and manufacturing. And as Christians, we have completely taken us folks for granted. The church doesn't know what to do with us. And I think a lot of times we're looked upon as just come to church and write a check. I mean, I'd be honest, um, but there's incredible potential for, for us as kingdom workers in our communities. And I just think we've completely lost that sense of the dignity of work going all the way back to the creation mandate. When, when God says, you know, be fruitful, multiply, flourish, help build a civilization. And for whatever reason, we've lost that sense. This is how the kingdom works is by people being in their businesses and just being excellent in how we treat people and how it's not just trying to witness to people our work itself. We are honoring God and it's a form of worship when we express our own creativity and our dignity through a job well done, whether it's making gears or couplers
Jason:yeah, that's
Dave:or building the building. Who in our world. Wants a crappy job or I mean or crappy workmanship, right? I mean when you go bad service when you go through your community you admire good work You admires, you know buildings that are done really well And if you go back to Exodus when Moses is a great story to me that Moses is so frustrated with the nation of Israel You know, he gave the Ten Commandments that he went in Aaron takes all the stuff and throws into a fire and out comes a golden calf and, and Moses just disgusted, goes back up on the mountain. And he, as a leader, he's so burned out and frustrated. And he says, God, I need you to show me your glory. I need to know you're there that this isn't just all in my head.
Jason:yeah,
Dave:And God responds to him. And he said in Exodus, I think it's 32, if I remember right. And he says, I will indeed show you my, I will, glory, I will allow my goodness. to pass before you. So the glory of God is his goodness and his goodness coming through us and in us and how we do our jobs, how we run our businesses is absolutely transforming and foundational for our communities.
Jason:good.
Dave:what the book's
Jason:I love it. Well, and so I will say, if you are in the blue collar industry, if you're leading blue collar teams, I know I have, I know I have listeners that are, because I know, I've talked to them. There's guys running tool and dye shops. There's guys running road construction companies. Uh, they'll listen to this show and so get the book. And that's not why Dave, actually I asked Dave to be on the show. He didn't come on to promote his book. I just, I believe in it. It's a really great book. That's why I gave it to my son as an audible. He listens to it, you know, while he's working. So, yeah, I'm like, yeah. And no, he said it was super helpful. I'm like, look, here, you know, you're a young man running a business, a small business and, uh, you know, with blue collar guys. So, yeah, so it's good.
Dave:Yep. Awesome.
Jason:Hey Dave, what are your spiritual disciplines? We talked a lot about your faith. You've talked about how you came to Christ. Like right now, how do you stay close to the Lord and grow in sanctification?
Dave:So I am, I'm an introvert at heart and I need alone time. I need silence. So to me, it's getting away by myself a lot. Um, and just building that space in my life to, to listen. And obviously I read scripture. I read books. Um, I journal quite a bit. Um, My daily so it's kind of different things. I have my daily discipline and then I have my, you know, kind of weekly and monthly and seasonal kind of thing that I do. The daily one is just getting up early and sitting quietly, you know, I'm not into a, a, you know, kind of a strict quiet time, so to speak, but it is just there's some mornings. I'm so fried that. I don't even have the brain capacity to read You know, I, I just can't, I, I, I, I just, oh, I'm just tired. But I'll just sit quietly and I'll say, Lord, show me my pain, my pain points today. Show me my, the anxiety that I have, because I think so much and being a leader, is we have to be healthy ourselves because if, if we're toxic, that's, we're gonna project that on other people. So I wanna know, first and foremost, Lord. Um, what am I struggling with today? Where's my anxiety and help me identify that and, and have you deal with me on it. And then from there, it's, you know, it might be a lack of faith. It might be just a situation where you feel I'm going to have to deal with that work with maybe a, uh, a difficult employee or a problem with a customer or whatever. And, and, and a lot of it's maybe I'm not feeling that peace with my wife or my, or my grown children or whatever. Or I just feel really insecure today, right? So I think there's a lot for, to me, a lot of the discipline is just recognizing God as my father who just wants me to take, just be with him and take, you know, my, you know, take gas or cares upon him. But it's got to me, it's this really loving thing where I have to constantly pray and recognize the love of God. So one of my life you know, is out of Ephesians three where he says, you know, he tells like I think it's Ephesians 3, 19, I believe, where, um, you know, being rooted and established with love and love together with all God's people, you would grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ. So that you may be filled to the measure of the fullness of God. And I think as a, as a believer, that's what I need every day. I need to be filled with the love of God so I can be, you know, I can minister to my wife. And then, and then apart from that, it's, um, I really try to just get. Whether it's taking a walk with my dog, just get out in the woods, get out in the fields, and then on a seasonal level, I need that, I need that break of just pulling away. And so I read a lot of books and, um, my wife's great with worship, but the disciplines of silence, of being alone, um, controlling your thoughts, um, those kinds of things are really important to
Jason:Yeah, yeah, I'm with you. I remember, I think it was in your book, you, anyways, I've heard you say it or write it somewhere is, you're in Wisconsin, winter times, like here in Michigan get pretty cold and talking about just kind of, you know, being near a fire and quiet time and, Yeah, we have a couple of fireplaces in our house and I love that, you know, quiet morning and yeah, that's being near to the Lord. Nobody else around. The dogs aren't up. The kids aren't up. The wife's not up. Just you,
Dave:Yep. Yep.
Jason:cup of coffee and the Lord. That's good
Dave:Yep. Exactly.
Jason:Hey, uh, from a leadership perspective, Dave, when you think about your like top two or three core leadership principles that you just always, always go back to, what are those?
Dave:It's going to sound kind of weird maybe, but number one for me is, is related. It's humility and vulnerability.
Jason:Uh, love it.
Dave:And if you're not vulnerable with your people, um, you're not going to connect with them. And we're all broken, right? And I think too much, too much leadership stuff out there is you got to have your crap together. I probably shouldn't say crap, but you have to have your stuff together, right? You have to project this image of being all, you know, I got the answers. I'm a good leader. No, I'm broken. And, and I, the transformation that I see in my people. going over the last 30 years is when I'm vulnerable and share my weakness, I apologize a lot,
Jason:Yes.
Dave:you know, and it opens the door for my staff to go, yeah, okay, you're like me. And, and, and to really model that because it opens the door for grace and forgiveness. And, and if we don't do that, um, it, the environment just becomes very artificial. superficial, right? So, so that's the number one thing. And, and I think the other thing for a leader, which goes along with that, it's that self reflection. Um, I think I wrote it in my book too, but the concept of when things go wrong, do I look in a mirror or do I look out a window? Right? And what they mean by that, when things go wrong, do I look out the window and blame everybody else? Or do I look in the mirror and said, how could, how could I take responsibility? Of this, what could I have done better? And, and also flip that when things go well, do I look out the window and give everybody credit or do I look in the mirror and say, yo, look what I did. Look how great I am. Right. Yeah.
Jason:Yep.
Dave:Yeah. And I think that's just, just really, really pivotal, I think, as a leader to understand that, um, and to model that, you know, to, to model that and be authentic about it. And so, along with that, going back to kind of the, the spiritual disciplines, I have to be in touch with what my issues are every day. Um, because I think, you know, when you come in your work, we've all seen that you can sense when people are in a bad mood, you can sense when they're in a good mood. So, if I'm not really in touch with my stuff, I can't fake it. There's times I've tried to fake it. I come into the shop and Super bad mood. Might've had an argument with my wife or whatever it might've been. And I come in and it's just, I just feel crappy. I just like, don't want to come to work. I don't like people. Just everybody leave me alone. And I come in and kind of like, Hey, everybody. People sense immediately when I walk in the door, you know,
Jason:Oh, yeah. Yep. Yep.
Dave:And so if I'm not aware of that, I'm going to project that on other people. I'm going to take my bad day out of those because as a leader, you know, I think the hardest thing is, and it's not faking it, but people look to us to set that, to set the example, to set the tone. So even if I'm in a bad mood, can I, can I manage it and be open about it and joke about it and say, and tell my staff, this day sucks.
Jason:Yeah
Dave:And they're laughing at me like, okay, we'll give you space. Right. And, and so it's, I think it's so much of it is just modeling, being authentic, I think more than anything else.
Jason:I think that word vulnerability I can remember when I got it. Like, I finally got it. It was through a mentor and a book, I think I'll say I'll recommend the book, it was by Patrick Lencioni, who's one of my favorite leadership authors, and it's The Five Temptations of a CEO.
Dave:Yep.
Jason:I don't care if you're not a CEO, I'm not a CEO, read it. If you're a leader, read it. And he talks about vulnerability in there and why it's so important. And like you said, Dave, if you're not being vulnerable and honest and transparent with your team, especially, might I say, I think, I'm biased, but I think blue collar folks, they see right through that crap, right? Right? You're just blowing smoke, and I won't even finish that phrase, but you've heard it many times as well as I have, right? And they know! You're just, you're full of BS, and they know if you are. They'd much rather have you just be, be legit, genuine,
Dave:Yep.
Jason:with them, and vulnerable with them, talking about making apologies. I just had to do that this week. Okay. I made a mistake and, you know, it was, uh, an issue. Anyways, one of the guys on the shop floor You know, express frustration to someone else about it. And I heard about it. I went out and apologized. I said, you're right. I should have, I should have done something. I did not do it. And you know what? He shook my hand and he was like, thanks. And that was it, you know, and
Dave:I think, I think you're right. The blue collar focus. I think I love them growing up, you know, in that environment, they have a BS meter radar, unlike anybody else, right? And if you're not authentic, you're just, you're just part of the man. You're just part of the system because I think, I think blue collar folks have been taken for granted and overlooked and just looked down upon so much that they tend, they tend to be a very cynical group, which I am. I am too.
Jason:are.
Dave:And I like, just show me some authenticity. So let me show them truth and don't blow smoke up. You know what you're right.
Jason:I, uh,
Dave:they respect that. And they totally respect that when you're, when you're real with them.
Jason:you talk about cynicism. I'll tell you a funny story. I'm, uh, and I, I, I told you before we hit record, I'm, I'm on a manufacturing consortium group in my area. And so we work with manufacturing companies and, uh, education leaders. And so we're just, you know, talent pipeline, skilled trades, development, all that stuff. So, there's a large plant in our area that I know the HR leader there, he and I have worked together before and I said, Hey, can you please try to get your manufacturing site leader to come to this group and see what we're all about. And, uh, and I know of this man and he's a, you know, typical ops leader, you know, a little cynical, a little, a little, uh, you know, abrasive at times. And he said, uh, My friend said, okay, I got him. He will come. He said, he's going to come, but he's very skeptical. And I replied in the email. I said, if he wasn't skeptical, I wouldn't respect him.
Dave:There we go. Exactly. Exactly.
Jason:your skepticism, brother. Let's, uh,
Dave:Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.
Jason:Hey, Dave, if you think back early leadership journey, um, what were some things that you struggled with early on and do you still struggle with them? How have you overcome them? You know, think about. other younger leaders out there, um, encourage them maybe in, you know, this, whatever particular thing is, maybe they're struggling with it too.
Dave:Yeah. I think. Insecurity, I think more than anything else, and I still struggle with it even though I'm 61, um, where people bring expectations. We, we, I think the expectations we have of ourselves of what kind of leader we should be, and we have to project this, this sense of confidence and authority. Um, caring so much about what other people think,
Jason:Yeah.
Dave:and, and that's always, and I'm just wired that way. I want, I want approval. You know, I want everybody to like me. And. I was talking to a mom recently at an event I was speaking at and she said, you know, it's that old thing about when we raise kids, our number one priority is not to be their friend, right? Um, eventually we'll be friends with their adults, but it's to be a parent. And as a leader, my number one priority is the health of the company. And I need to do what's best, even when it's hard. And even when people disagree and even when I'm going to have some blowback, I need to have. the confidence to know that I'm doing the right thing. And I, when I make decisions here, I'm getting everybody involved. I get tons of, I mean, I, I consult my staff constantly. I want the, I want them. In fact, a great book is, uh, uh, if you want, I don't know if you ever heard of this book called the decision maker by, by Dennis Bakke. It's actually takes place in the shop. It's a fictional story and it's how we make decisions in a shop and that everybody should have the freedom and the. Authority to make decisions and he talks about those who are closest to the
Jason:yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Dave:But there's a but there's an advice process in there. You can't just give people freedom to make all the decisions So they got to have a team One person is the point person they consult with a lot of people they consult with me I'll give them the authority to run point on that And sometimes i'll have to veto it sometimes usually i'm like no you guys did a great job with it It's a great book the decision maker by yeah Dennis Bakke. Um, yeah, but it's um, so as a leader, I've just struggled with my own insecurities and wanting, like I said, people to like me and just being able to make the hard decisions when it's unpopular, right? Um, that's, I still struggle with that and I think that's just the way I'm wired. I think that's the number one thing.
Jason:Well, you know, Dave, I think that's important for people to understand. So if I think back when I became, I can tell you right now, I remember. Like it is a core memory the first time I had to write somebody up because I was so I was so nervous And it was just it was writing a guy up I wasn't firing him and I was I was sitting With a senior hr leader who was a mentor of mine and she did the talking I was just kind of there as the supervisor, but it is hard, you know, and that was I mean that was 25 Maybe 25 years ago for me and it doesn't Get easy, but it gets easier. I think because you you know, you you gain some
Dave:Yep. Yep.
Jason:then I think too I had a another person on on my podcast who's a mentor of mine He's he and you are probably within one or two years of each other age wise and he said the same thing He said I still struggle really really fighting having those tough conversations but one of the things he said too is a motivator is He remembers when he didn't have them and how bad it gets and how harder it gets when you wait too long. And, you know, I try to remind myself of that and, and also do the right things for the, for the team and the business. You know, that, that's a motivator to say this, like, you know, this has to happen. Everybody else knows that you should have this conversation.
Dave:Well, well, you're, you're, I'm glad you brought that up cause cause I have, that's my biggest mistake over the years where I am often a reluctant leader. You know, I would love just the shop to run itself, not have to mentor people, not have to coach them. And I, I, I, I had a guy come in my, and I'm still struggling with this. In fact, this happened right now with, with the other nonprofit I've started where people are looking for me to lead. And I often will, um, give my leadership authority away or just draw back from it. And I still remember I had a guy come to my shop or right here in my office. One time he sat down. He's actually a couple of years older than me. He sat down and got tears in his eyes and he said, you know, Dave, you have to realize when you don't lead, we all suffer. And I just went, Oh, cause he was right. When I, when I let issues go on and I know they need to be dealt with and everybody's looking for me to step up and lead. Um, I need to take the bull by the horns and make those decisions and confront people if I need it. And, and if you don't, if I don't, Somebody's going to fill that leadership void.
Jason:Yeah,
Dave:And it's probably not going to be what we all want
Jason:that's right.
Dave:you, you know, you might get somebody that's not going to do it well. Um, so I think your staff, when you're leading people in whatever situation, if you're not, and it's not being a jerk, it's not being that overconfident leader, but it's people know you have the authority as a leader and step up and be that authentic, vulnerable, but authoritative leader that people want you to be. And if you don't do it, things just get worse.
Jason:Yep. Yep. Oh, they do. Absolutely. Yeah. If it's not addressed, it's going to get worse.
Dave:Yeah.
Jason:Hey, uh, we've talked a little bit about this, but I want to get as practical as possible. So how do you, when you walk into Edgerton gear every day, like what are some things that you do to mindfully honor Christ in the work and as you lead people and in your interactions and decision makings and all that, like talk, just talk some more about that.
Dave:So like I mentioned before, spiritual bliss and getting up more and make sure I'm not toxic. Um, but, and I write about this in the book again too. Our little interactions that we have throughout the day can be so powerful. I call them relational transactions, where it's just treating people with dignity and respect, having a smile, recognizing people. Greeting them respectfully. You know, I got guys that come in, they grunt
Jason:They said, I have those same guys.
Dave:But that doesn't mean they don't want to be respected and appreciated and recognized. Right. And so as a leader, part of me, you know, from a kingdom perspective is giving people dignity of recognizing them and affirming them. I think there's such a huge need out there for people to be blessed and to be People are so beat up and worn down and so insecure and I think especially blue collar people they come with so much baggage And so to be in an environment where we are constantly blessing and it's not it's not Ooey gooey over the top But it's as simple as saying good morning to him. Hey, good job And so to me, that's a big part of what I do I recognize that it's kind of almost as my pastoral role to be vulnerable open but to bless them, right? Not to curse them but to bless them Um, and I think that's huge. God honoring is just giving people the dignity of a job well done or or even just coaching and mentoring. One of the things that we do when people make mistakes. Um, and I've learned this the hard way over the years, and I think I learned it from my dad because his first job, um, it often tells a story. This is this is how not to honor God. He would scrap apart when he was in his late teens, early, early twenties in the machine shop. And, um, his step actually became a stepfather. If he scrapped the part, he'd come over and the stepdad break a file over a machine, cuss and yell and swear at him. He'd take the gear blanket, hang it over his machine and leave it there as a reminder, don't ever do that again. It was just totally humiliating.
Jason:gosh
Dave:And, and I learned, so when people make mistakes, uh, one of the first things that I never, I never yell at people, I always, okay, so what'd you learn? Because I've learned they already feel bad already. If they have any character at all, there's nothing I can do to make them feel worse. But to show grace and say, you know, what did we learn? How can we fix this? I've had guys come in and scrapped out thousands of dollars worth of parts and they want me to just to yell and go
Jason:Yeah, they feel horrible.
Dave:They do it and I'm like, oh dude, sorry. And they've actually come up, would you just yell at me?
Jason:Yep.
Dave:And I like, no, I can't, cause I can't make you feel worse. So that's, that's, I think that's, that's pretty practical, but right there. Um, but as far as the other aspect of our work itself, we want to make the best parts possible, right? And so I think that, that commitment to excellence and, and integrity. So not only, you know, just all of our processes in our place in our, we have in process inspection. It's really cultivating that, that culture of excellence, that we're going to do the best job possible. And when we send out good parts to our customer, that's God honoring. When we screw up and we, we have to fix it and we do it as fast as possible. That's God honoring. Um, when we treat our vendors with respect, even though sometimes it's hard, that's God honoring, you know, and again, it's, it's that sense of goodness in literally everything we do. Um, and when you think about the difference between good and bad, it's polar opposites. You don't want a bad gear. You don't want people to want to be treated badly. Um, it's so easy to go, okay, well, what does it look like to be good then? Right? And it's, it's treating people with respect. It's loving them. It's forgiving them. It's, it's showing them grace when needed. It's even disciplining them with, with respect. Um, it's making great parts, et cetera. Um, I, I got a couple of stories, one real quick. I had a guy that, that, um, Came in so wounded and broken. He, to be honest, hardly anybody can stand to work with the guy. Um, but he's got a huge heart. These big burly guys, Gary is all ghetto. And one day he was, he, he came in and, um, my, my right hand man and I were out in the shop talking about what some delivery schedules This guy walked by and I said, Hey, by the way, I'm not going to mention his name, but I said, Hey, what's going on? How are we doing on those parts? He blows up and starts whining and complaining. Nobody gives any, I won't use the language, but nobody gives a crap. Nobody. And I, I said, let's just stop. And he just kept going on. And it was one of the few times, one of two times I can think of in the last 10 years where I felt the Holy Spirit said, go off just in a holy way, go off. And I literally, and I stopped and I'm like, Lord, is that you? Because this is going to be tough. And I just felt that, that, that kind of, yeah, you need to do this now. And it's out in the shop for a lot of people, this dude's got a hundred pounds on me, big, big, big dude. And I literally grabbed, he's got, he's got coveralls. Um, I grabbed his, his suspenders and I pull them towards me. And I, yeah, I literally yelled and I, and I screamed at him, stop the bull, stop the bull. And he's, and he's looking at me, I go, stop the bull, you know, and I said, you gotta get that out of your head that nobody cares that you're unlovable. And I said, we love you. You have to understand your environment. We want you to be successful and we care about each other and we care about you. And he was just shocked. He was stunned. He And he shut up and all of a sudden a little tear starts coming down his cheeks. And he said, Dave, I've never been in a place where people care about me, and it's hard for me to believe that. And, and to me, I was pretty radical, radical example. I'm like, okay, God, thank you. That works.
Jason:Yeah.
Dave:But you know, sometimes it's that tough love that it's not, you know, it's, it's not humiliating them, but dude, I'm speaking truth. You need to understand. I love you,
Jason:Well, yeah. And I think that some people need to be communicated with a four by four.
Dave:Yeah,
Jason:right. I mean, that's, there's some people who you can mention they might want to think about doing things differently and they'll be like, I'm sorry, I'll never do it again. And then there's that guy and I've had that guy on my team. And you. You can't just mention maybe he should not do that. You have to, yeah, come at him.
Dave:you gotta match their language. This is the language they understand, right? And sometimes the louder we yell, the more they feel loved.
Jason:my gosh. I think you and I can share a lot of stories. It's the
Dave:I think
Jason:same guy with a different name, man. It
Dave:good.
Jason:let's, let's talk about, uh, we're talking about people, we're talking about how we can Honor Christ as we lead, uh, these guys that we love, these blue collar guys. And let's talk about craftsmen with character. I think this is a great point, or a great time to transition into that. So,
Dave:Yep.
Jason:explain what that is, how it came about, your passion around that. Because I love
Dave:So, yeah. Well, thank you. Because, um, like I mentioned, I ended up going back to school in 2010 to get a doctorate of all things, which is really God's sense of humor. Because I'm an apprentice. That's how I learn, you know. And I gotta do things. And this big dilemma that I think all manufacturers In the trades and manufacturing, we're all struggling with his workforce. We have an aging demographic. We have people that are aging out average age in a lot of shops or in the fifties or even early sixties, because we lost an entire generation of young people coming to the trades because high schools back in the nineties started radically reducing or eliminating their tech ed
Jason:yep,
Dave:So since then, so Eric for 30 years plus, you know, we lost kids who are coming into the trades. And so all of us in the manufacturing have been struggling with who is going to come in and replace, you know, our retiring folks. And so we were, we were poaching from other companies. They offer, you know, a dollar more an hour or whatever. And one day I was up at our local high school, where I actually went to school, talking to our tech ed teacher because he asked me to come up and help resurrect the tech ed department. And while I was up there looking at all the old equipment that I ran 20, 30 years ago, that was mothballed and still there was lathes and mills, I looked, I just felt God spoke to me and said, Take a look at these kids. These kids are you. You know, this is how you were 30, 40 years ago. And they're a blue collar kids. They're quote, not college material. You know, none of the teachers ever thought I'd go to college and they never, they never gave me the option. I think they looked
Jason:yeah, yeah.
Dave:he's not going to make it. There's no point
Jason:That was
Dave:Oh,
Jason:If he graduates high school, we're going to call that a win.
Dave:exactly, exactly. So, uh, um, you know, so I, and tech ed departments often at the middle of a long haul cut off from the rest of the school. These kids are often socially awkward. Um, they don't fit in. They're not getting any accolades for, you know, their grades off in sports or anything. And I just felt God say, take, these kids are you and how can you help them? So that's where my whole doctorate started. It kind of changed saying, okay, how do you reach these kids and who are they? What, what is going to make a difference to them? So spent three years studying educational theory, um, just how we learn, how we grow. And I came up with, you know, realizing and educators know all this, but there's four types of learning styles. There's those who read and write. That's how they learn. That's how majority of our educational system is set up. But over half of our population are tacit learners meaning we learn by doing Or and part of that is also seeing and hearing So how in the world is our entire educational set system set up for a small segment of our population? We have all these kids that need to be working and doing. So the course I came up with, Craftsman with Character, um, is basically four days a week that the kids get to job shadow. And one day a week I get them in the classroom. Well, the, the concept was, it was only an hour and a half a day, but the concept was, can we change their worldviews? Can we talk, talk about character and help them understand that Being a team player, looking someone in the eye, showing up on time, being committed to excellence, having the dignity and pride of a job well done. All of those things, having a sense of justice and courage and humility, those aren't just words, but those are the skills that you and all of our, your listeners, we've all, we all adapted or learned to be successful in any job. I mean, those are the soft skills that we all need. So how do we translate those things to these kids and also give them a sense of purpose that they're not here by accident. They are here for a reason. They have a sense of purpose. The world needs them, etc. And how do we do that? It's not by reading and writing about it. It's showing them. So the whole concept is hooking them up with mentors in the workplace. And the two parts of that is now they get to see what's out there for all these skilled trade jobs that they have no clue exist. So the course, a semester long course adopted by many schools now, is, is Four days of job shedding in a variety of companies, one day a week in a classroom where we, what I often say, we deconstruct their worldview and give them a biblical, a biblical worldview, even though there's no religious language in it, because I'm, I'm working with the public schools now. So the transformation of kids from week one to week 16, who are often beat down, feel worthless, no self esteem. to a point where they're talking with adults. They're seeing the job opportunities for them. And we take them through this thing called the craftsman code, which I make the kids memorize. And it's really fun. If you're a dad, if your listeners are dad, it's fun. I make the kids memorize. Number one, you are, I am not the center of the universe. Kids have to recite that constantly. Um,
Jason:of the universe.
Dave:yeah, but it's not a, yeah, but it's, but it's not a SmackDown. It's really the context that. In any of our jobs, we're like in gear manufacturing. We stand on the shoulders who came before us, right? We are, our trade has evolved over a hundred years plus machining or whatever. So it's given the kids appreciation for the past, help them be more teachable. And number two of the grassroot code, as we call it, is I don't know everything nor nearly as much as I think I do.
Jason:yeah.
Dave:And, and trying to help them be more teachable. And then number three is there's dignity. And purpose in my, in my trade. So now what you do really matters. Our blue collar work is really important. No matter if you're a pipe fitter or a machinist or an electrician or whatever. And then the magic one is number four, when the kids really start to understand it, the world needs me. And when that, when they get that into their heart and their mind, that just opens up their whole world. Number five is their, um, pay as a reward for my efforts, but it's not my main motivation. So we're kind of deconstructing the lies of our culture. And then number six is every person has unique gifts and talents. So you can't change a, you really can't change a person's character in two weeks or a month, but over the course of four months, um, it's incredible to see this transformation. Um, I got one of the best emails ever this week, and I'm not going to read the whole thing, but just the last paragraph, this kid actually came. I only met him one time, and he is actually in another class in a nearby town that we got started. But he said, before I started the program, I was working at a shoe store in a horrible environment, which ultimately led me to starting smoking. I think he's a junior in high school. During my first semester, I would wake up at 7. 45 to be at school at 8. I would wake up angry at the world. I was a bum. Because of your course, I quit smoking, started waking up at 5 30 every morning. I'm in the gym three times a week. I start as a youth apprenticeship as a Mason tender, making 18 an hour for this company in Janesville called J. P. Cullen. And most importantly, I'm starting to enjoy my day to day life a lot more. I've struggled with mental health for quite a while and things are really starting to look up
Jason:Nice. Oh, a little blessing.
Dave:Yeah, so it's and now i'm emailing this kid back and forth because he's also asking the funny part was he wanted my book and now he's saying I I want to know more about faith. I want to know more of what it means to be a good man
Jason:Praise the
Dave:So so anyway, that's kind of if you go on our website craftwithcharacter. org Um a year and a half ago i'm sharing This with our local tech school and I got a call from a guy by the name of John Cain from Scott Forge He's the CEO of big forging house here in the Midwest. He says you got to get over here The Navy's here. I told him all about you.
Jason:The Navy's
Dave:Navy
Jason:the whole Navy?
Dave:whatever so I get over to the meeting and people are talking about craftsman care because we got started in the southern community With Frito Lay and, and Scott Ford and some other big manufacturers. And everybody's bragging about these kids are amazing. You know, they're blue collar kids. They're all getting youth apprenticeships now. And the Navy, this woman from the Navy sitting there listening, and she looks at me and she goes, Okay, I have one question. And I go, Yes, ma'am. And she goes, What do you need to take this national? Uh huh. What do you mean by that? We need this everywhere. What do you need? And what she explained is that our nuclear subs are the only competitive advantage that we have, um, over our enemies. Um, the Chinese, the Russians are all up to par on our jets and our ships and so on. She goes the nuclear subs are the only things that, that we're a generation ahead. So she said they, we have 17, 000 suppliers, manufacturers throughout the country. And we're not getting our subs in time. So we went and interviewed all of our, our suppliers and everybody said the same thing, workforce development, not enough young people coming in. So we need this course everywhere. So how can you help? And I go, I don't know, money, uh, people like I'd have to start a whole organization. So, uh, we started talking and two weeks after we started talking and six weeks after that, they gave me a three year commitment, multi million dollar a deal to grow this thing and try to spread it literally throughout the country, turn my world upside down. And I'm still, still reeling. So we are, uh, throughout Southern Wisconsin. We're getting to Northern Illinois. We hope to be in Michigan this next year. Um, I've got a class in Houston, North Carolina. I've got a lot of interest in Detroit, Seattle and different places. So we're scaling up to really try to figure out, you know, how we can help folks. If your listeners go on the, the Navy website, BuildSubmarines. com. You might see that the Navy is sponsoring a NASCAR. They're doing commercials during the NFL season. Their website is amazing because they're spending hundreds of millions of dollars to somehow figure out how can we get young people in our, in the submarine industrial base with all the manufacturers. Yeah,
Jason:that's super cool. I mean, you and I, as we've talked, uh, we both see the same problem and are, and are working to solve it. You're definitely further ahead than I have been. Uh, but I work locally with schools and, uh, educators and other manufacturers cause it's, yeah, it's a huge problem. I mean, we, we, uh, we started an apprenticeship program at the company I work at cause we're just, it's like, I'm not, yeah, I'm just, I'm fighting for the same talent. And even when I get them, they don't have the skills that I think they should have. So how do we build that up? And that's what, that's what we're doing. One, as you and I have gotten to know each other, you recommended a book. called Freedom's Forge. And so if, if, you know, when you talk about, well, why is the Navy worried? I mean, I think we understand that, but if you are a history buff and you like manufacturing and World War II, which I happen to love both as far as the history, learning about the history, Freedom's Forge is a book that talks about the manufacturing buildup that it took to win the war. It took soldiers. It took, uh, unfortunately a lot of bloodshed to win that battle. Uh, and there was a lot of hard assets that had to be manufactured. Like, and you, when you, so anyways, this book is all about that and that build up and how that happened. And without a manufacturing base, you, it's a national security problem at the end of the day.
Dave:And that's what the Navy has told us. We actually have a Command Master Chief of the Submarine Commander that came and spoke at one of our events. And he recommended the book. And so I went out and got the book. And what blew me away about that was, I thought, you know, the U. S. involvement really started at Pearl Harbor. You know, December 7th, 1942. It actually Our national leaders and manufacturing leaders got involved in the fight three years before that. And, and to mobilize the industrial base to realize, yeah, and Michigan obviously is one of the key places that's happened, uh, back then to get the main, you know, start making tanks and ships. And it, that book blew my mind when you see it, how harbors were built and it just goes on and on. It was, uh, one of the most amazing books I've read.
Jason:yeah. Well, and I think it's, it's a particularly mind blowing for guys like us, Dave, that if you think about, if I came to you tomorrow and said, Dave, I need your entire factory to be making, um, these different parts as soon as humanly possible. One factory, right? Tool change, die change, programming, right? Guys gotta measure these parts differently. Multiply that throughout the country. In every, in every, right, stamping plants, machining plants, assembly plants, like every tool in an assembly plant that was making pickup trucks, now it's making, you know, Whatever. Tanks? I mean, yeah, that's like, that's a big deal. Oh, no, by the way, a lot of your workforce is going to go overseas. So you got to do this with new people. And, oh, okay. No problem.
Dave:Yeah. And the Navy is actually, when they come and speak at our events, it's actually pretty scary, you know, because they, they can, they can share what they can, but. Um, they said it is an issue of national security. It's actually one of the top issues in the Pentagon right now, because the Chinese are intent on taking over most of the world, as we know. And they said we, our submarines, they don't know where they're at. And that's what's keeping them at bay. And I jokingly said to him one day, I said, hold it. So you're telling me after some private conversations, they're explaining to me all seriousness as I said, so you're telling me that Craftsman with a Character can help prevent World War 3? I was joking. They looked at me totally serious. They said, you're not wrong. I go, oh.
Jason:Yeah. That's
Dave:So we're working hard to mobilize and, and if, uh, any of you listeners are interested, literally go on our website. I've got a powerful team that just in the last year put together a website that if you're a business or a school, you can join an informational, uh, hour long Zoom call. And learn more and we're looking to get this everywhere as fast as possible because the Navy has told us, um, I think it's the year 2027 that the Chinese have in their charter to take over Taiwan. So they really believe it's only a matter of time. So there's a total sense of urgency, you know, turning 61, people said, when are you going to retire? It's for one, I don't think it's biblical. And two, um, it's just not on my radar at all. So
Jason:Yeah. Well, good. I'm going to, yeah, you and I are going to get together on that because I want to share best practices and what we can do on that side of things. Um, couple other questions before we wrap up, Dave. Hey, who are some of the people that you follow and listen to, podcasts, authors to, to help sharpen you as a leader, as a believer, uh, in your leadership? Like who do you recommend?
Dave:one of the fun ones, um, for younger listeners, Jordan Rayner. I don't know if you're, um, him and I have become good friends. I've been on his podcast a couple times, but I think he articulates The whole faith and work movement right now, almost as good as anybody, especially for the younger generation. Um, and that's really, really powerful. Um, besides him, uh, on the, you know, kind of the, some of my favorite guys are dead, you know, but I, but I really enjoyed, you know, Dallas road, um, read a lot of his stuff. I still go back to, uh, the divine conspiracy, um, One of my favorite all time authors who's been, uh, been a long time is George McDonald. I still go back and read some of his fiction and some of his readings, um, really ministers to me a lot. Um, just gives me a, gives me a worldview that, that says the gospel is way bigger than just getting people saved, right? It's not just praying a prayer. It's this, it's this construct, you know, that people don't know. George McDonald was C. S. Lewis mentor. That's what C. S. Lewis actually called him. So that whole idea of the, the line, the rich and the wardrobe and, and that whole series, it's a, and, and JR Tolkien, all those guys had this worldview that the kingdom is really about, you know, infiltrating society in a, in a, with, with goodness, right? And standing up against the forces of evil and darkness and being a light, which, which ha takes a lot of different, you know, lot, lot. We do that in a lot of different ways. We need people in machine shops that are salt and light,
Jason:Yep. Yep.
Dave:So. So I guess that's, that would be a few off the top of my head.
Jason:Yeah. I, I found you through Jordan Rainer. So you were, that's how I, that's how I find you. I'm like, well, yeah, you were on there. And I'm like, wait, what? There's a guy out there who has a journeyman's card and a, and a business degree like me, like that. You're the only other person.
Dave:Yeah. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. We're probably the only two, but there's gotta be
Jason:There's gotta be more. If you're out there, let us know. We can form a, we can form a club.
Dave:That's right.
Jason:So if people want to get in touch with you, Dave, obviously Craftsman with Character website, check that out. But what if they just want to network with you or reach out to you? What's the best ways to do that?
Dave:I'm on LinkedIn.
Jason:Okay, good.
Dave:So just find me on LinkedIn or through Crafts with Character, you know, and I do respond to people. I'm not that famous where I just, I'm not one of these people that get a hundred emails a day. Um, I love connecting with people and you know, I'll even give out my personal email. That's my shop email. Just Dave at edgertongear. com. Um, just Dave, you know, Dave at edgertongear. com. I, I, uh, you know, I, I think we're, we're part of us. I think this young man that I read this email this morning, he's emailing me every other day. And he's, he's actually saying, no, I'm struggling with loneliness because I'm, I, I, I find people boring and irritating,
Jason:You are. You are definitely blue collar. Yeah, you're
Dave:but he's asking really deep questions. And he goes, I, I, I rather have quality of a relationship than quantity. And he's 17 years old. He's asking these questions. And I told him this, I was writing him this morning and I said, you are part of a small group of folks who you're going through what I call an awakening. You're waking up and asking the deeper questions of life. And I think those of us like you and I and your listeners, there's some hard questions that we all need to talk about together. And to ask really, what does it look like to be a Christ follower in this day and age? Because I think every generation, one of my mentors said, God ain't got no grandchildren, right?
Jason:Yeah, that's right.
Dave:we, we have to discover for ourselves What it means to follow Jesus in whatever environment that we're in in our age and right now being in a polarized culture There's some really interesting Challenges and I think more than anything Opportunities, I think I have never seen the opportunities that I've seen in my entire life that I see now We're kids want to be mentored business leaders want to make a difference in their communities And we all just need to come together and and talk and support each other like what you're doing Yeah, what you're doing is awesome. So thank you
Jason:Well, thank you So yeah, and thank you again for being on today. Thank you for the work you're doing I love it because you and I just share so much of our background and the the you know what we're doing I mean, we're both running machine shops I mean, that's uh, that's pretty cool to be able to connect with somebody who loves the lord and is doing that so I'm gonna come and see you. I'm gonna come and see you soon. I can't wait for that. Uh, but yeah, um Thanks for being on brother and I can't wait for people to hear about your story and what god's doing in and through you So, thank you
Dave:Thank you, Jason. Look forward to connecting.
Jason:All right
Yeti Nano:And thank you for listening. And again, this month, as we heard from another leader, striving to honor Christ in their work. Please be sure to rate the podcast and subscribe to our YouTube channel so that you can be the first to know when each episode is released. Thank you. And God bless.
