Biblical Leadership @ Work
Biblical Leadership @ Work
Veteran, author, and entrepreneur Darren Shearer
In this episode of the Biblical Leadership at Work podcast, host Jason Woodard talks with Darren Shearer, an entrepreneur, Air Force veteran, and author. They discuss how Shearer's military experience matured him spiritually and led to his career in book publishing. Topics include the role of Christians in shaping workplace culture, the importance of leadership development and mentoring, and integrating Christian principles in business. Shearer also shares his personal background, transition from military to civilian life, and insights from his book 'The Christ-Centered Company'.
Theology of Business Institute
High Bridge Books
Traction book
Linchpin book
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Welcome to the Biblical Leadership at Work podcast. I am your host, Jason Woodard. On today's show, we will meet Darren Shearer. Darren is an entrepreneur, Air Force veteran, author, host himself. Darren and I discuss how God used his time in the military to mature him spiritually and ultimately lead him to become an author and start his own book publishing company. We discuss how Christians can and should be shaping culture in their workplaces.
Darren:And so when we are reflecting Christ in our work, we're reflecting the glory of God. and that is more than just taking somebody through a gospel track, but it's now shaping culture.
Speaker 4:We also discussed the importance of leaders developing their teams and becoming comfortable with not being the one getting all of the glory.
Darren:there is certainly a important role that I have in the places where God puts me, but that role is not to get the glory and to get the credit.
Speaker 4:Darren also speaks to the importance of having a mentor and the hesitation we sometimes have at taking that first step.
Darren:and like actively invite them to speak into the situations that you're dealing with. the temptation is gonna be to feel like, Oh well, if I make it seem like I don't have it all together, then they're not going to respect me. And that's you know, that's a lie.
Jason:All right. Darren Shearer, brother, thank you for being on the podcast today, man. I look forward to getting to know you and sharing what you have for us with the audience.
Darren:Same here, Jason. Thanks for having me.
Jason:tell us a little bit about your background, brother. what's your education background, what's your, work experience and then up to where the Lord has you now.
Darren:I could go back, quite a ways. so I came into the military prior to that. I was a rebellious son of a preacher man and which is running from God. doing the high school sports and, trying to fit in and be cool and all of that. And, my life just hit a pit of depression and purposelessness is really what it came down to. I just was questioning what is life for? is there, there's gotta be something more for me. And then 9, 11 happened, 2001, I was a sophomore in college. And on that morning, when I saw what had happened to our country, I went to the commandant of cadets office at our ROTC department at our college. and said, sir, I'd like to join the military. And they, began to ask me about my credentials and, achievements and things like that. And I really had very little. going for me at that time. But Hey, the Lord used that because the Air Force needed people at that time, needed officers and because we were going to war. And so the Lord just gave me a lot of favor to be able to come into the military. and he began to use the military to disciple me. As a follower of Christ and to just, and give me a sense of purpose, which initially was just, I think just patriotism, but because I was surrounded by just a lot of really quality Christian people, Christian leaders, began to see myself as a leader for the first time. I'd been a team captain and that sort of thing, but I had not been. really walking out, living a life that I could say, wow, that kid's a natural born leader. Like people wouldn't have said that about me at that time. but the air force really helped to awaken a lot of that in me. So that's, that was the starting point in my
Jason:So you were in college at the time still, what year college.
Darren:Yeah, I was a sophomore. I was a sophomore in college so it was one of the only, there was only two. ROTC programs that were two year programs in the entire country. And I just happened to be at one. I mean, I basically, it was Charleston Southern
Jason:Okay. All right.
Darren:And so a lot of the cadets that I was in ROTC with were prior enlisted folks that came from Charleston air force base. And so they weren't just, like me, like young, just trying to figure out what we're doing in life. Like these were like seasons. veterans that I was now surrounded with. And several of those were key people who were Christians that really helped me to discover that God had more for my life than just what I was experiencing. So that was How am I? I would say how my career got started.
Jason:So you graduate college, and you're an officer now in the air force.
Darren:That's right. Yeah. So I commissioned as a second lieutenant and then my duty station was Barksdale Air Force Base, home of the B 52 in Northwest Louisiana. And I was there for four years and spent about six months in Kuwait. doing logistics. And when I was there, I was responsible for coordinating the freight forwarding or the cargo movements of all of the air forces cargo that was coming in by ship into the Middle East. And so I would decide if that's going to go up on a convoy, or it's going to be airlifted in some cases, put her on another smaller boat and going down to Qatar, for example. And, so that was my role there for four years and it was a lot of
Jason:Yeah. Learn a lot. Thank you for your service, brother.
Darren:Thank you. Thank you.
Jason:So after the military now, you're an entrepreneur now and we're not there yet. I'm excited to learn about that. But so talk to us about how you transitioned from military life to civilian life and what the Lord. Led you through there.
Darren:Yeah. since we're talking about biblical leadership, there's another, key part of my journey. When I was in the air force, I was I still had the mindset that ministry is something that happens in a church type program. cause that was what was modeled for me growing up with my dad being a pastor working in a church. And I'll never forget, I was leaving the base. one particular day to go do some volunteer work through my local church. And I was doing a lot of different, I'm as a young, single guy, no kids, I was just volunteering all over the place. but the Lord just really hit me upside the head with this. Revelation, when I was leaving the base this day, and he said, this base is your ministry. that was a real paradigm shift for me because now my orientation for ministry was not ministry is something that happens somewhere that I'm not currently, and I just need to get that I can do ministry. or, some people feel like I got to go to seminary and I got to go work in a church or be a missionary and live in a mud hut or all of that. And the Lord just broke me out of that and clarified that there's so many people on this air force and God was surrounding me with them all the time. people that just needed Jesus there on the base. and so that was a real shift for me. But when I did get out of the air force, after coming back from Kuwait, I did sense the Lord wanted me to go to seminary, not to go plant a church or do, conventional, church type, of a ministry, but because I knew that the Lord wanted me to have a biblical foundation for what, you He part of, at least part of what me, what he wanted me to do, which was to really dive into discovering what does the Bible say about business? What is God's will for business? and then I went to business school after that. And since then I've really been trying to blend the two. And, the Bible says you can't serve both God and money. That's not what we're talking about. the great commission is to. Make disciples. Where's that going to happen? It's got to happen where you spend most of your waking hours, which is for most of us in a for profit company.
Jason:and I would even say, Darren, I don't know if you know Jordan Rayner. Are you familiar
Darren:Yeah, actually, I just interviewed him like a week
Jason:yeah, so we run in the same circles, right? I love what Jordan says about the first commission. What was our first commission? And if we do that, well. it equips us to better do the great commission and the great commission is the great commission for sure. I love where the conversation's going in regards to that because it is so important. And as we go into our workplaces, wherever that be, military base, as I shared before we hit record, I have spent 30 years in manufacturing and going into plants and being able to do my work with excellence in a way that glorifies the Lord. And there's inherent value in the work and be that light and that salt in the workplace and have those opportunities, not all the time, but have those opportunities to actually share the gospel, invite, people to come out to church and hear the gospel and, but until we're, until we got the work part down, we're not being obedient to the Lord. the thing that I'm very excited about with the, I'll call it the, this movement. that you're very involved in is that we're trying to break that paradigm of ministry only happens in the church and the missions field. And those are wonderful, beautiful places where God's kingdoms advanced, but ministry should be happening everywhere, including in our workplaces. And God uses that to glorify himself through whatever the work is. it, it demonstrates his characteristics, whether it's creative work, restorative work, it's all part of who he is and that first commission that he gave us to go be fruitful and multiply and subdue the earth.
Darren:yeah, and I really, yeah, I really see the Great Commission as, not that these are two separate commissions, but that the, what we refer to as the Great Commission in Matthew 28 is really a reframed version of the First Commission or some call it the cultural mandate or the creation mandate. it's as if, God is saying, okay, we've seen how you, we've seen how you do ruling and subduing the earth apart from me, just feeding on the wrong tree now. Now if you're really gonna do that, the way you do that is by following me, and becoming like me. and so that's the idea of discipleship. But the problem is that we've reduced disciple making down to, that's when you get, you take people through a gospel tract and we reduce disciple making down to. Taking somebody through a little quick, tiny gospel tract, and there's a lot of power and there's, that's the gospel message is very simple and in some ways can be reduced to just the simplicity of that message. But for it to really take hold in our lives for us to really bear fruit, this is a, a time consuming process. And the only way you're going to be a disciple is by committing to a process, which is not just a one and done. you're following him every day. and, it says in Hebrews that The sun is the exact representation of God's glory. And so when we are reflecting Christ in our work, we're reflecting the glory. of God. and that again, is more than just taking somebody through a gospel track, but it's seeing it's now shaping culture. It's shaping corporate culture. And I think that's where I really focus a lot of my energy and thinking is how do we do that on a company level because that's where people are going to be at least for adults, working adults, the primary place where they're going to be shaped, as disciples of Christ, where their spiritual formation is going to happen one way or another. if they're going to conform to the pattern of this world, or they're going to become more like Christ, it's that battleground is in the workplace and the culture of that organization is either. making disciples of Christ or making disciples of, the spirit of the age, the, any, anything, any other godless value system. And so that's an opportunity we have as Christian leaders is to shape the culture because the culture I really believe is what the Holy Spirit, and frankly, against the Holy Spirit, other spirits working through cultures, to get people to think and act in certain ways and consider those ways as right. this is just the right way to, to think about, social issues and, how to treat people and what the value systems ought to be and all of
Jason:one of the definitions. I've heard of culture that I really like. I'm a very practical guy, right? so sometimes these terms are like Can be very academic One of the one of the definitions I heard was that it's essentially the behaviors it's the amount of behaviors that are accepted in an organization. It forms your culture, right? So what's tolerated within the organization, what's expected. And it starts with leaders. And what if you go into an organization, that culture is what's expected, at a positive level. And what's tolerated at a not positive, right? what's the minimum standard if so you're right now talking to people that are business leaders in all kinds of industries at different phases of their career. They have different sized teams that they're responsible for. In some cases, people that aren't in management or supervision that have aspirations maybe to be, or just want to learn. Darren, how would you give advice to people who work in various fields and careers and how do they help mold the culture in their workplace? In a way that is more in line with biblical principles because they're not necessarily, this is, let's say quote unquote secular work, right? So they're not necessarily coming and having Bible studies every day. Maybe they are, that'd be great, but they can come and form policies, procedures, and form a culture that's aligned with biblical principles. What are some practical ways or some ways that you would, challenge them and advise them on doing that.
Darren:I have a whole book on this, titled the Christ centered company. Okay. And in that book, I talk about 37 biblical business habits and I, the way I understand culture, nuance from what you were saying. And I think your definition is right as well, is, the culture are the defining habits of a group of people. And so what are the defining habits of your organization today? And in your, or let's say just your department and the way that, for example, how you handle conflict, what is the prevailing value system as expressed through the default habits of the people? and so as a leader, and I'll just, I'll share one of the habits, which is really the bedrock habit. And. it's a bit difficult to quantify. cause it's really more of a mindset. Whereas a lot of the other habits in the book are more like practical. like you can really measure it. But this particular one is recognize Jesus is on the receiving end of every action that's taken in your company. So now Jesus is no longer just the one who is high and lifted up and the chairman of the board and looking down on the organization. But he's also your entry level employee that you just hired. He's also that intern. He's also your customer. And every action that we take in relation to those people, Jesus is on the receiving end. And it says, that's what it says in Colossians 3:23-24 whatever you do work at it with all your heart as working for the Lord. So this isn't just, that the Lord is your boss, which he is, he is the King, but sometimes we can just convince ourselves that, I'm relating to God in one way and I'm relating to this person I don't like or this person I look down on in a different way. and Jesus says, if you've done it for them, you've done it for me. If you haven't done it for them, you haven't done it for
Jason:It's having that, it's having that proper perspective that they are created in God's image.
Darren:yeah, exactly.
Jason:and we have to take that approach. And I like what you said about those that work on your team for you, customers, colleagues, suppliers. Treating them all in that way and with biblical love, right? Which is honesty, transparency, kindness, grace, remembering that God treated us kindly and with love when we were still his enemies. Yeah. And I, one of the, the we know scripture is clear that if we're not to forgive others, we won't be forgiven. And so being forgiving and showing grace to those because that's hard at the workplace sometimes, and so one of the things I always Remember quickly by the grace of God As I've been forgiven for far more than I will ever have to forgive anyone else of so again You know interacting with people with that mindset in a way that's you know When there is conflict in a way that shows grace and love and patience You Truth. there's still, you have to come at it full of truth
Darren:Yeah,
Jason:and grace. Everything.
Darren:between a company that is Christ centered and one that is not or a leader who is Christ centered and one who is not is can be really boiled down to one word and that's worship. I think to the Elijah and the prophets of Baal, where there was a challenge where the, between the prophets of bailed are going to do it their way and get, try to get their God to answer by fire. And Elijah would do it his way and invite his God to answer by fire. And of course, ultimately, Jehovah ignites Elijah's, altar that was doused in water. And, they hack up the prophets of Baal and, it's just a wild story. But I just believe that God wants to, I think about that as a kind of a analogy for Christ centered companies and those that are not where it's going to look different. It's going to, it might look counterintuitive to the outside world that you're going to, prefer others above yourself, for example, as a value of a Christ centered leader. but God is going to ignite that, like God is going to honor that. and it might not be impressive to the outside world, but fundamentally, that. what you're doing is an act of worship for God. And so when Jesus is on the receiving end of everything that's done in the business, now your business and your role there becomes an altar of worship, instead of, and the alternative is going to be an idol. and when we hold on to the influence and the things that got in trust to us in the workplace and get our identities wrapped up in that it becomes an idol. And when it's an idol instead of an altar, there's no worship. There's just, there's a very, Yeah, it's self worship. There's a lot of just insecurity and anxiety and it's not advancing, it's certainly not carrying out the Great Commission because it's not revealing God's glory, it's not revealing the person of Jesus. Even if you take, a couple minutes each week to go, evangelize at the water cooler. Like the mission has been just,
Jason:Eroded. It's just, yeah.
Darren:yeah. Eroded. Yeah.
Jason:So Darren, right now you are leading a company that you founded. Tell us a little bit about what you're doing right now, the name of your company and what's your, what's your role is there and
Darren:Yeah. they would ask me in undergrad, what are you going to do with that English degree? Because I was an English major and I didn't know. it's that frustrating question that every college student gets asked, what are you going to do with that degree? And I finally realized, that I would just say, what am I not going to do with the English degree in an English speaking country? so that was my little comeback there, but I never really understood how much God was going to use that later on. because the company that I ended up starting was a book publishing company and I taught, academic writing when I was in grad school as just a little side hustle there in our university writing center while I was doing my studies and these doctoral students, mostly English as a second language doctoral students would come to me in the writing center and ask if I would, edit their dissertations. and so there's a little market. On a university for, editing doctoral dissertations, especially when you've got a lot of international students that need, extra help with that. And so that's how I cut my teeth in the, for profit publishing world. And it wasn't long after that, that I published my first book about, let's see, 14 years ago. And that the title of that book was in you God trusts. And based on the premise that God doesn't just love us, but he trusts us and has entrusted, some things to us, really everything we have. because God has entrusted
Jason:We're stewards. We're stewards of all of it.
Darren:yeah, you don't entrust something to somebody that you don't trust, is what it boils down to for me. And first Corinthians 13, seven says love, always trust. Anyways, so that's that book, in a nutshell. and so I was in business school in New York city and this was in like 2009, 2010 when, all the new social media companies were coming online and just, it was like, we're the Facebook of this and we're the Expedia of that. And that was all the rage when I was in business school. And it left me feeling like, Oh gosh, if I don't start a tech company like this, then, my type of business doesn't really matter. And so I ended up spinning my wheels, threw away some money on trying to get something started. And in the end, the Lord just spoke to me. like you spoke to Moses, although it wasn't at a burning bush. and just said, what's that in your hand. and of course Moses throws down his staff. And for me, as it related to my career, what I had in my hand was, I have some experience doing proofreading. I have some experience, and I had logistics experience, but I didn't really sense God was calling me to go do it. back into the industrial world and manufacturing and all of that. I knew that there was something to do with teaching and, books on some level. And so he just said to go ahead and start this publishing company in a neighborhood. I was living in at the time in upper Manhattan's called Washington Heights. And there's a bridge called the high bridge that connects the Bronx to Manhattan. And it was the oldest bridge in all of New York city and is built as an aqueduct to bring water into the city. And the Lord gave me this vision that our company, which is named high bridge books, would be like an aqueduct to bring life giving stories and messages to people. And fast forward, 10 years after we started that company now, I think we've got over 205 books under contract and I've written a handful of those. and that's, that's the sandbox that I get to play in is helping Christian authors get their message out, which
Jason:No. And is it run a broad spectrum of topics that you guys publish? it's all, it's Christian authors around whatever. Okay.
Darren:Yeah. CS Lewis said we don't need more Christian books. We need more books written by Christians. So I like that. philosophy. And, while we do publish a lot of Christian books that are Christian living books, devotionals, things of that nature. we do publish industry specific books. like we've got one, one book that is like the quintessential book. If you were running a, oil change operation. we've got a set of books if you were managing dental offices. And so I just love that. Yeah, that we can speak into and that our authors are bringing their Christian worldview into these, particular, areas, instead of everybody having to write the same kind of Christian living book, that's already been written. but then, we have a lot of authors that are sharing their story of what God has brought them through. we have one particular author who is, ESPN sideline reporter, her book's getting ready to come out. lost both of her parents to prescription drug addiction, fentanyl overdoses within 24 hours. When she was a gymnast at Rutgers as just a freshman in college, it loses both of her parents to, an addiction. She didn't even know they had and that nobody knew.
Jason:Kept it hidden.
Darren:And, she's on fire for God. just, loves the Lord you look at her, you hear her and you're like, there's no way you've been through something like this. but it's just, the power of God's redemption. And, so yeah, we published books on a wide range of topics.
Jason:talk a little bit about your, theology of business institute. So you've got two things go right. You're involved in both leading at both of those organizations. What's that all about?
Darren:As I mentioned a little earlier in the interview, I went to seminary and then I went to business school and, I really sense a calling to bring a blend of the two to where we're not just teaching business apart from a Christian worldview. and because that's where 85 percent of Christian workforce in the United States spends most of their waking hours. So if the church is not engaging business, then we're not carrying out the mission. Like we're just, we're completely missing it. If we're just waiting for people to show up on Sundays so that we can get them to volunteer in our church and, try to help them in a couple of areas. if they're not around people who are living a Christian lifestyle, modeling a Christian lifestyle all throughout the week, then they're missing it. and the church really is missing it. And so I just really felt passionate to, just really speak into this area. And so the mission is to discover and apply God's will for business. and so that's not just like, how do take somebody through the Roman's road
Jason:at
Darren:work. but how do you model the ways and the will of God in marketing and accounting and risk management and all the different facets of business?
Jason:if somebody is again a business leader, let's say they have Fairly high level responsibilities at a company and they want to think more clearly about that Go to the website check it out. do you do training as your books? Like how do you? You Engage with people that are interested in growing in that way. Cause I would encourage it. I'm, I want to as a leader and I'm sure many people that listen to this want to grow in that way. So
Darren:at the risk of sounding self serving, I would definitely recommend people get the book, The Christ
Jason:yeah. Oh no, that's why we're talking, man. It's like
Darren:yeah. and it, and there is a, an assessment that goes along with that people can take for free at theologyofbusiness. com. but the book is going to help when you go through all of the items in the assessment, you're going to, you're going to self assess and in the different areas of these 37 habits and self assess, not just yourself, but your more so your company, corporately, because again, I really feel strongly that the way disciples are made is not just through the influence of any one person, but the collective influence of a lot of people. Otherwise known as culture and, culture is not just cultural artifacts like, the songs that we write and the, or even the products that we produce or the services that we render. All of those things. are birthed out of the culture, but the culture is what will remain. So people are going to come and go from your company. That culture is what will remain. but as individuals, we get to influence the culture. and so people can take that assessment. and then the areas where, a lot of what we've seen is they take the assessment. They know they need help. like there's one particular, gentleman who runs a pool cleaning company down in Florida and, his wife got him the book for Christmas and he just devoured it and immediately started implementing the habits And he reached out and said, he wanted help going through the assessment. He then hopped into a group that we have going on for business leaders that are really serious about. Implementing these habits in their business because each of the 37 habits is not just, a good to implement habit. There's biblical precedent, a biblical foundation taught for each one of the habits because the way I'm wired, I need to know the why behind what I'm doing. like if this is just, some non Christian consultants advice, yeah, I might use it, but I'm not going to have the, level of commitment to it that I would have if I knew that there was a scriptural foundation for it.
Jason:Yup.
Darren:And I think a lot of us are wired that way as well. So I'd encourage people to go take that assessment, get the book. If you want some more in depth help, we can go one on one and you can also hop into one of our, one of our
Jason:You have some groups. That's great. Oh, I love that. I'm gonna, I'm gonna check it out. You and, I, you and I just met on this. So this is new to me as well as my audience, I'm guessing. So that's super exciting. Hey, a couple of questions, back on a personal note for you, Darren, tell us a little bit about your family, married kids, what's your situation there?
Darren:I'm married. we've been married 11 years. actually it'll be 12 years in May and we've got three boys, 10, eight and five and yeah, we're having a lot of fun. I get to work from home and have been working from home for the last, ever since we got married. and yeah, we live in Western North Carolina, a town called Wayne, Waynesville about 30 minutes West of Asheville.
Jason:Asheville. That's a great area.
Darren:yeah, I can hear, hopefully y'all can't hear this, but I can hear. My, my 10 year old over there playing Star Wars on the piano.
Jason:I can't, I
Darren:he's just gotten really into piano and music here lately. So that's a lot of
Jason:That is a lot of fun when you start to see your kids pick up something and get passionate about it. When you said three boys, one of my very favorite shows of all time was a tool time or home improvement, whatever, you get them mixed up. So when you say three boys, that's instantly what I think about your house, your poor wife. She must be a, the Lord must think, I know she has a lot of patients.
Darren:Yeah. At first I thought you were going to say my three sons, but I'm like, I know you're not
Jason:no, I'm not that old. No, we watch, we watch reruns of a tool time and just laugh at, I'm like, that's a lot of reality
Darren:yeah, it was a great show. Yeah, I love, I remember that, that episode where, one of the kids gets his first paycheck from his paper route. And, and Tim permaplast it into
Jason:He's like, how am I going to get it out?
Darren:Yeah. It's like, how am I going to cash it? It's
Jason:I can't tell you how many times I've watched an episode and I'm like, we've experienced that. I don't have three. I have two boys and a daughter, but it's a, there was a lot of good life lessons. Hey, Darren, again, on a personal note, personal spiritual note, what are your spiritual disciplines? How do you stay close to the Lord? How do you grow in sanctification? what are the things that you have in place, to do that?
Darren:one of the best ones that has just, really changed my life, is something that me and my buddies call Bible texting accountability. So we are reading the same chapter of the Bible every day. And I've been doing this now for about two years where yesterday we were in Genesis 50, we just finished the book of Genesis. And today we're starting Exodus, but I'm the following month will be in Isaiah. And then after that we'll probably be in like Galatians or something, who knows, but we're all reading the same chapter. and so the basic model is that we text each other one verse from that chapter, just, It's a check in Hey, I read the chapter, like here's a verse that stood out to me. and then what most of us do is we'll add a thought or a prayer, just like one sentence. It usually, nothing more, maybe two sentences max on, what your prayer is in relation to that verse or what thought you had in relation to that verse. And so
Jason:How many guys are
Darren:doing this,
Jason:guys?
Darren:there's actually the guy that started as here in our area, and he, struggles with dyslexia and just really needed kind of that extra accountability to just commit to reading the scripture, just because, it was already hard enough, but then if you're battling with a reading, like that, then he just needed some extra help. And so I don't know how many guys in total, but I know every day I'm texting 14 guys and most of them are texting me back with, with a verse from that particular chapter. And so to just be able to, be in the word every day and do it as a body, and where it's not just sort of me and my walk with God, but we're, I think we were designed to, to do life together. And, some of the guys that are like, yeah, I want the accountability side, but I don't like. having to do the same chapter that you guys are. So I'm going to text you a verse, but it might be from, a different book or just whatever I have. And that's totally cool. like just last night I texted, so Genesis 50 where Joseph, his brothers, Jacob has just died. And his brothers are like, Oh gosh, it's over for us now. Like Jacob was the only thing stand between, us and Joseph, destroying us and making us slaves and everything. and Joseph is like, don't be afraid. I'm going to take care of you and your kids. And what you meant for evil, what the, what you meant for evil, God meant for good. And I just texted, that was my prayer. Lord, next time I'm tempted to just be resentful and unforgiving toward somebody else. Help me to remember those words. Help me to remember the example of Joseph. and that was it. Within, Like one minute or two minutes. One of the guys read that and he said, his exact words were you just blew the resentment right out of me because just 20 minutes ago I was about to go through the roof and that text just you know, while that kind of result isn't like the main purpose for it, the main purpose is that I get it in me. he's not feeding off of, that I'm getting, but that he's in and he's in the chapter for himself. but yeah, it's just
Jason:I love that. I have developed a habit of reading a full chapter each day, which I love. And, it's been a huge blessing, but that whole accountability piece and just sharing, what you got from that. I like that idea a lot.
Darren:and it's such a great way to just connect with other guys that, we got our own families, we got our own careers and we're going our separate ways. But this is like one of the only ways that I have found that grown men are going to be in contact daily.
Jason:And then you guys do you guys vote on the next book? I can see that being like, how, what's that process? Yeah. what are we going to read next? Okay.
Darren:To, to an extent.
Jason:question for you? What are some of the books and authors I mean you've written a book you've already recommended which I appreciate and I think that's super Relevant to the topics that we talked about here. I'm gonna I'm a Kindle guy So I'm gonna download that today put it in my queue But who else do you recommend or podcasts? other resources for Christian business leaders.
Darren:I love traction by Gina Wickman.
Jason:had that recommended to me like two weeks ago
Darren:yeah. I love that. it's not just theory and stories, but it's actually application. And here's, these are the tools, he uses the word tools, I don't countless times throughout the book because everything in the book he considers to be a tool that you can, and he shows you how to implement it. And, and I just love that approach. In fact, I really tried to emulate some of that in writing the Christ Center Company, but with the biblical foundation. In addition to showing like, this is how you actually put this habit into practice. But I love Gina Wickman and the entrepreneurial operating system
Jason:Yeah. It's the E EOS, right? I, in the last, I don't know, six months or so, I've become more exposed to this EOS. so I have 30 years of manufacturing and I have studied and practiced lean manufacturing and Six Sigma and all of those process improvement methodologies. And I'm a huge believer in them. And so as I started to see the EOS, I'm like, this is, A lot of the similar, similar methodologies, similar tools, similar cadences. And so I highly recommend people that are responsible for businesses, to understand more about EOS. There's software I'm starting to see more and more, there's a web based software to be able to help you execute and, stay organized. Is there any that you guys use in your business that you have found to be helpful as from on the software side of things to run EOS?
Darren:we keep it pretty lean. we're doing a lot of Excel spreadsheets, and, you know, old school cause man those little 25 a month, 50 a month subscriptions add up pretty quick. but. No, we do use like MailChimp and QuickBooks and, some of those things, but we don't get crazy when it comes to CRMs and things like that, I think we're just probably not at the scale for needing things like that, but,
Jason:just seeing that's getting to be a little more, broad base, some of the, yeah, some of the softwares that come alongside of the EOS implementation. And, but yeah, definitely recommend people, check that out. That is in my queue. I have that book queued up. So what others, what other books or
Darren:Yeah. and I was just going to say that, another major advantage to me personally of writing the Christ Center company is that it forced me to make sure that I'm implementing these things myself for my company, So I'm not just writing as, an, like a consultant. Like I'm like, like I can't teach you to do something that I'm not doing on my end. And, and some of those areas doing better than others, but that's also the power of having this accountability group where we're actually going through the book. And, we talk about different things that, for example, One of our guys had, just a real tragedy happened to one of his team members. and so we started to talk about habit 22, which has to do with providing pastoral care for your employees and your team members. And, we don't have a lot of employees, three employees, including me, but we have other contractors as well. and the group challenged each other. So let's make sure that of our team members, even if they're third party contractors that we don't, work with daily, but that get consistent work from us, let's reach out to them. And so we did that, reached out to one of our guys works in India and, We invited him to our team meeting this past week and he was saying, that he's from Cal, he lives in Calcutta where he's like, Oh, mother Teresa, yo, yeah. Mother Teresa. And, and good Friday coming. he thought that our Easter was the whole thing was called good Friday. Um, and he was saying that he was getting ready to go to the temple to go worship this goddess, this coming weekend while we're doing Easter. but he just said, I'm S I thank you so much. Nobody. people never reach out to me like this and want to find out about my family and want to just find out about me as a person. And then he let us pray for him and pray for his family. And,
Jason:What an incredible example of everything you're talking about. What an incredible example. Wow. That's amazing.
Darren:Yeah. Cause what pastor is going to get access to minister? You know what I
Jason:none to the guy in India who's practicing and grew up, probably practicing Hindu and no exposure to the Christian faith or Christians except for whatever he's heard. that's probably completely upside down. Praise the Lord for that. That's awesome.
Darren:and that's not yet. And we didn't just. Go on a mission trip to India, have a one time encounter with this guy, and we're never going to see him again. he's on our payroll. we have influence with this man. And, I just love, but that came out of having some accountability for going as we're going through this book and these habits to have a group of other Christian business people that are serious about implementing these. Like I can't implement some, I can't teach something that I'm not doing myself.
Jason:right. That's
Darren:know what I mean? And that was just one of the instances of that.
Jason:have a question. Leadership question for you. I always ask this question because I want us to learn from each other. Darren, when you think back to early on in your leadership journey, what was something that you struggled with as a young leader? And did you overcome it? Is it something you still struggle with? And what advice would you have for somebody who struggles with this particular issue as a young leader?
Darren:I think, because so much of my identity became wrapped up in performance. And once I came into the air force and it was like, Oh, there's ranks and there's ribbons and metals and, awards and all these kinds of things. And that was just like, Perfect for my flesh, and just that self righteous part of me that wants to just prove that I'm worthy, you know, prove that I really matter. And so one of the symptoms of that was that I felt like I kind of had to do it all myself and I had nobody could do it better than me. And which was just ridiculous, but in some cases I could do it better than the other person, but they're not getting any opportunity. To grow, to develop and plus my time is not unlimited. And I really ran into this when I was trying to build this business is because I was the proofreader. Like I was the one that had to do the editing. I was the one that, so at one point, when it really hit me that Darren, this has got to stop was we went to my family reunion and drove from Houston up to Kentucky. And I was proofreading a manuscript all the way there and all the way back in a moving vehicle. And, it was just ridiculous. And the Lord said, spoke to my heart and said, I must increase, you must decrease, like John the Baptist said,
Jason:I love that verse. I love that
Darren:and I think, and so how does he actually increase like in practice generally is through other people, right? Like we decide, okay, I don't have to be Superman anymore. I can decrease and allow him to increase through the other people around me. and yeah, I might not feel like I'm getting as much of the credit because, I'm not the one that actually delivers this to the client anymore. and so it just made us certainly more profitable, but it really reduced my anxiety level, and just that overwhelm of when everything is on your shoulders. to deliver, it's a real trap. And so God really just broke me out of that.
Jason:I think in my experience, that is a super common struggle because if you're a really good individual contributor, that's who's going to get promoted. And that means that you were exceptional and you got the work done. You were productive and learning to be productive through other people. and delegate and teach and let go. And you just made a really interesting comment too. That's a struggle for some leaders is that you said, I'm not the one now to be able to deliver that finished work. That glory is going to somebody else now, but as mature leaders, I think, and I had to go through the same process where now I can sit back and get excited for that person and watching them. get the glory for that success and say, okay, this is good. And feel like I don't have to be here every minute of the day for this to hold together. that's where leadership maturity starts to happen. Developing a team, you can be gone and things are going to keep going. they're not going to fall apart. And so many leaders I've worked with or around that are like, they, I don't know. They just have to feel so needed that if they're not there, all the decisions have to come through them and it's a broken, unbiblical, selfish model. So
Darren:That's right. Yeah, there's another great book called the linchpin by Seth Godin and I really love that concept because the Lord just has really made me feel like I'm in that linchpin role in a lot of the places that I've been in where the linchpin is not The linchpin is not the, the glorified, like when you look at the, whatever's moving, the linchpin just keeps keeps the wheel from falling off. it's that little tiny, I've got one on my dolly. That's the only linchpin I can think of that I have, here, it's that little small role, but a lot does pivot on that role. And there, there is certainly a important role that I have in the places where God puts me, but that role is not to, To get the glory and to get the credit. And so just overcoming that has been, like I don't need to be the charismatic leader on stage. I'm not going to be that person. That's way out in front. And, that everybody has to, to aspire to and everything. Like I'll just, I'll be that linchpin wherever the Lord wants me. You know what I mean?
Jason:Hey, a couple more questions for you before we wrap up. One thing I always like to ask is, Let's say that you had a new, a young leader, just got their first promotion. They're going to be leading a team, a department. And they reached out, said, Darren, I'll buy you a cup of coffee. Come and give me your best advice for first time leading a team. what advice would you give them in that situation?
Darren:I would say stay surrounded with senior leaders. stay surrounded and like actively invite them to speak into the situations that you're dealing with. the temptation is gonna be to feel like, Oh, if I make it seem like I don't have it all together, then they're not going to respect me. And that's the, that's a lie. Cause it's not, they feel so gratified. They're going to respect you a lot more by being the one that has the chutzpah to come to somebody that has been around longer than you have to be able to help navigate the situation. Even if you feel like, you're doing it just to invite them into your life. Like even if it's something you feel like you really probably could figure out on your own, to just keep those lines of communication open, cause otherwise you end up like Raya Boom and the Bible. where says that, he followed the advice of just the young men that were not seasoned, they weren't experienced and they, and that he did not listen to the voice of the elders. And he ended up ripping The whole kingdom apart. that was, yeah, he, if he was the linchpin, like he, the whole, everything just fell off at that point. Everything was ripped apart, but it started with him refusing to listen to people who had been around longer than him.
Jason:You said at the very beginning, and that's why I had to laugh that, and it's true that sometimes we think as young leaders coming into a new situation, man, if I ask a question, they're going to think I don't know what I'm doing. I'm here to tell you, they know that you don't know what you're doing. And and I did it too. I'm not, throwing stones, getting a mentor, asking for that input. But. Great advice, man. That is super, super important. And I've also found, and I think you would, I'm guessing you would agree, Darren, when you ask, they're eager to help. 99 percent of the time, they're like, yeah, I'd be happy to sit down and have a coffee with you, or, have a one to one meeting with you, or whatever, and give you some I have a guy who was a mentor of mine years ago, and he's retired. We, we worked together. I left that company. He retired. There's nothing in it for him. But when I email him and I have maybe once a year or so, I'll say I've got something pretty major. I'd like to run by you a hundred percent of the time. He said, yeah, let's jump on a call. he's retired. I, what, but, and I'm so grateful for that because this guy's yeah. lot of wisdom from him. So good advice. Hey, Darren, how can people, reach out to you and I'll put, content. I'm going to link to the book and the website on here, but if people want to connect with you and network. What are some good ways to do that? And we'll be sure to share those.
Darren:Yeah, if you're interested in publishing a book, you can go to highbridgebooks. com. You can email me at darren at highbridgebooks. com. If you are interested in discovering and applying God's will for business, go to theologyofbusiness. com. Tons and tons of free resources there. And if you want to go deeper, I would strongly recommend getting this book, the Christ centered company, which is actually my third book written specifically for marketplace Christians. The other two being marketing like Jesus and the marketplace Christian.
Jason:That's great, man. I'm excited. I'm excited because this is new information for me. As I said, before we are a little bit ago, you and I just met, someone connected us, which I'm very grateful for. So I am looking forward to also buying that book and developing my own thinking further on that. Darren, thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule away from your family today and coming on the show and sharing with us, brother. I pray that the Lord will continue to use you, to bless workplace believers, to glorify him, around the country, around the world, even, in, in advance of his kingdom. So thank you, brother. Appreciate it.
Darren:Yeah. And thanks for what you're doing. fighting the good fight and discipling and equipping marketplace leaders. That's what we need. So thanks for what you're doing, Jason.
Jason:It's a joy. It's a joy. All right. Thanks, brother.
Speaker 4:And thank you for listening in to the podcast today. I pray that the content and recommended resources are a help to you as you strive to honor Christ in your work. I hope you will join me again next month as we meet another leader working to advance the kingdom in their workplace.
