Ryan Souders Interview

Join me this month as we meet the Head Coach for men's soccer at Calvin University, Ryan Souders. Ryan has over a decade of experience leading young to be better sportsmen and to grow in their faith.  Ryan is married with 2 young children and another on the way. He has been greatly inspired in his faith by his own father and you will get to hear that as well as some great leadership insight on this episode!

Check out Ryans LinkedIn here
Twitter
Instagram
Jon Gordon Podcast
James Kerr - Legacy book
Simon Sinek

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Jason 0:03

Welcome to the biblical leadership. At work podcast. I'm. I'm your host, Jason Woodard. Today we will meet Ryan Souders. Ryan has over a decade of experience as the head coach for the men's soccer team at Kelvin. Melvin university in grand rapids, Michigan. Ryan has a husband to Casey father to two girls with another child on the way. Ryan. Ryan is passionate about leadership and has a pointed and clear definition of what it means to lead biblically.

Ryan 2 0:29

I just think leadership comes down to service. We have all these other definitions and all these other taglines, but I just think, what are we willing to do for the man to our left and the man to our right. Are we willing to wash feet? Christ talks all the time. If you wanna be. Be a servant. You wanna be first wash feet

Jason 0:46

In addition to this, Ryan's share some of the ways in. Which he pushes himself and the young men that he leads.

Ryan 2 0:52

we want to be men that exhibit Christ likeness. And pursue excellence in all facets. That's our vision. We want to be like running after the Lord.

Jason 1:02

During our discussion, Ryan is very transparent about what he struggled with. As a young leader.

Ryan 2 1:08

I wanted to fight every battle. Every single one

Jason 1:14

He also shares a lot of good advice for current leaders.

Ryan 2 1:17

Hey, you're here right now invest so heavily in the group that you have. This is where God has you for this moment. Maybe someday in the future, he'll take you somewhere else. But maybe not. And so don't get ahead of yourself. Just commit to what you're doing

Jason 1:32

But for me, the most inspiring part of this interview was the impact that Ryan's own father has had on him. Him. And how it has made him want to be a better Christ follower, husband and dad. Even though his father wasn't brought up in a Christian home, he was committed to. The ending that cycle with his own family.

Ryan 2 1:50

my father wasn't really, he didn't really grow up in a Christian home. I think he grew up in a moral home, but I don't, I think faith was a good thing, but it, maybe wasn't a primary thing. the day I was born, I'm the oldest of three boys you know, my dad kind of was like, well, this, this is gonna die with me.

Jason 2:06

So Now let's meet Ryan souders

Jason 1 2:10

Ryan Souers uh, really appreciate you being here today. I look forward to getting to know you. I know the audience will as well. So Ryan, why don't you go ahead and walk us through a little bit of your uh, your career background uh, maybe start with your education and then let's talk about what you're doing professionally right now and we'll talk family and what the situation is there and then your faith in Christ and how that came about

Ryan 1 2:34

Sounds good. Jason, thanks so much for having me uh, really excited to be here today with you. Um, So I grew up in the Chicago suburbs. I'm a all Chicago sports fan. Uh, I think it's the greatest city in the world. It's actually verifiable fact create a city in the world. Um, but I, I attended.

Jason 1 2:51

fact. All right. We'll give our fact checkers right on that.

Ryan 1 2:54

That's true. You go back in studio, get 'em going. They'll give you that result. I can, I can guarantee you. So,

Jason 1 2:59

we'll do it.

Ryan 1 2:59

um, Grew up in, in the suburbs there and I actually attended Wheaton college just outside um, of Chicago land area there, which is A little ironic in the sense that I grew up in wheat, Illinois. And when I was looking At college. Wheaton college was probably the single last school I wanted to attend going into my junior year of high school. And God had other plans. I was gonna be a big baseball star. That was, that was my best sport in high school and had a couple offers and opportunities to go different places. But for ways to keep this podcast from being a four hour superset uh, I'll just tell you that, that I landed at Wheaton college in the fall of 2000 and. um, when there, I, I played baseball and then a member of their soccer team actually got hurt. And so I was asked if I wanted to be on the soccer team. I wasn't that good. I had played in high school. It was not to start for the team or anything like that. But that's really, I think where a more serious. Soccer side to my life, took over um, being involved in that. I graduated from Wheaton college in spring of 2007. And at that point in time, I decided that more than wanting to stay in sport, I, just didn't want to grow up Maybe is the best way to put it, kind of get a real job, so to speak. My, my father Has been in the financial industry, financial space. All of his friends are in the financial industry and financial space. All of my friends were as well. All of my friends' fathers were. And so by every account, that's really what I was supposed to do.

Jason 1 4:30

What was your education? Ryan? Was it around financial?

Ryan 1 4:34

Yes, so I did a, I did a double major in college. Uh, I did a kinesiology bachelor's of science, and then I did a business economics, bachelor of arts. Um, I I'd love to tell you it's because I was a great student. The reality is I, I was. Super confused about where I might be headed postgrad. And so I took enough classes that by the time I was done, I kind of qualified for, for both majors. So, um, both pretty open ended. You know, I was one of the few kinesiology majors that. Wasn't pre-med, that was a pretty big Track, for a lot of those majors and business. I mean, It's about as general as you can get you know, it wasn't a specific econ major or accounting or anything like that. Um, And so I actually moved out to Boston, Massachusetts uh, Upon graduating. Where I became um, one of the assistant coaches at Gordon college, uh, and went to Massachusetts. So, um, The assistant coach at Wheaton college, when I was there, had gotten the head coaching job at Gordon and asked me to be on a staff. And again, I didn't know that I wanted to be in coaching, but I knew I didn't wanna sit at a desk maybe just have another job, which now sounds super disrespectful to, to my father. Who's genuinely like my hero and I just so respect. Him going to work And being faithful and loyal to that. But at 22, knowing everything, I just didn't feel that was for me at the.

Jason 1 5:52

You know, I, one thing I'll say about that, Ryan, that makes me think about my relationship with my own dad. So I've spent my entire career in manufacturing and my dad as a sales guy he could sell you know, the old saying he could sell a ice, ice cone or ice cream to a Escobel that's my dad. And I tried sales, cuz I wanted to try and you know, do what dad does and I stunk at it and I hated it, but I, yeah, I have a tremendous amount of respect for him as an entrepreneur and a sales guy. And and I know at times he has thought, why would you want to go into a manufacturing plant every day for 30 years? And I love it. I absolutely love it. So I think that we can do, you know, respect our, especially Bo you know, young men, I think a lot of times really look up to their dads and always wanna start off being what they are. And um, but God, God, hasn't wired us all the same way, but we, I think we can still honor and respect them and appreciate what they've done without having that same calling that they have.

Ryan 1 6:47

A absolutely it's I'm extremely close to my dad. He was the best man in my wedding. I, think he kind of, we will probably get to this in a bit, but is responsible for, um, a faith legacy in our family. Um, and we are incredibly close. And he actually just officially retired last month. So, you know, 40 plus years in as a salesperson in that, in that field. And no one is more supportive of what I'm doing now, despite it not being in the same field, which is pretty cool. so I, I I finished up coaching at Gordon. And to be honest with, you had this itch that I still wanted to play. Um, I'm super competitive. I think as a you know, you talked about being a. You know, My longest dreams or whatever as a child were to be a professional athlete. Like I know that's not unique, but I never wanted to go to the moon. I didn't wanna fight fires. I didn't really like construction trucks or anything like that. I just always wanted to play sports. And it had a few friends that I met along the way, and they'd had some success and I thought well, I'm, I'm gonna go for it. so I was a part of an organization in Cleveland, Ohio, us L two pro. Never made a game day roster. So I was a part of the organization I trained and practiced with them. I continued to do some things in the front office, so it's not to kind of have a resume gap. Right. I could kind of continue a business at least profile a resume,

Jason 1 8:05

Then you were competing in soccer.

Ryan 1 8:06

yep. Yep.

Jason 1 8:07

I, I don't have a big soccer background, baseball. I grew up wanting to be a Detroit tigers, man. That was, That was my thing when I was a teenager.

Ryan 1 8:15

I love it, man. I'm a huge Cubs fan. I was actually a, a Cub season ticket holder for 12 years. So I'm a, I'm a big Cubs fan. Uh, we talk to baseball all day. But yeah, this is, this is in soccer now. That's, you know, I only, um, ended up playing baseball for one year in college for a number of reasons, but soccer kind of took over fell in love with it so few Americans seemed to um, but fell in love with it and, and, you know, was playing in Cleveland, not much, never made a game day roster. And for a lot of people that would probably scratch the itch, but for me, it just kind of deepened it to, to be honest. And, And so I left Cleveland in summer after summer of oh, Moved back to Chicago where um, I became an assistant coach back at Whedon college Just two years after leaving and joining kind of a rogue group outta Chicago, um, That helped try to place players professionally. And so that included two tours overseas. So I had a chance to play a little bit in Denmark in Sweden. But unfortunately there weren't any teams in Denmark, in Sweden that were looking for undersized under athletic, overweight, American goalkeepers uh, you know, imagine that, um, and so didn't yeah, right. Didn't didn't end up getting a contract overseas, came back to the states and ended up signing with a team in Charlotte, North Carolina. And so I was in Charlotte for two. Um, I played with the Charlotte Eagles down there. Two of the best years of my life. Similar type of story is in Cleveland. I didn't play much. I did make some game day Rosters had some appearances, but wasn't a shining star by any imagination.

Jason 1 9:52

I'm familiar with like triple a ball club, right? Baseball fans. You go to the triple a, like up in grand rapids uh, where you're at, there's a triple a club. I believe they're rated as, so the soccer you were playing in, would that be like an equivalent? Were you part of a professional network that was kind of a pipeline feeder for. Larger teams.

Ryan 1 10:11

Yeah. So most people are familiar with MLS major league soccer. You. Here in the us. And it, and then I'm not naive. I don't think that major league soccer is equal to major league baseball. But if you were to say they're both the top or major leagues in, in their respective sport When I was playing in Charlotte and when I was a part of the organization in Cleveland, those were both like triple a they had various affiliations. And so. Um, I was there for two years, but that is a summer league here in the states. Soccer is more in the summer, so MLS is going on right now. And so, um, with that, that actually gave me the chance to be an assistant coach at Davidson college, um, which is in the north suburbs of Charlotte. Spring and summer, I spent playing or being a part of this Charlotte Eagles organization. And then for back to back falls, I was an assistant at Davidson college where A decent basketball player by the name of Steph cur. Put Davidson on the map, right? No one that really knew what it was smallest division one school in the country, Steph Curry comes out of it. And now the first question I get asked all the time is if I hung out with step Curry. So,

Jason 1 11:16

Did you, oh, that's the question? Did you hang out?

Ryan 1 11:18

bit. Yeah, a little bit. So Steph was actually back finishing up his degree Very minimal interaction. Steph would not know who I am today, but for a guy who was in the NBA at the time even before his success really good head on his shoulders Didn't seem like he was bigger than anyone else. It seemed like he loved Davidson, which is pretty. so I was at Davidson for two years playing for two years, and then I came to a crossroads. It was okay, you're now um, 26 turning 27 years old, a kind of time to grow up uh, for, you know, whatever's next. Maybe it was a coaching career. Maybe it was time to go into the business world. Um, Or maybe it was trying to climb like a professional sports ladder in a front office sense. Right. Hey, I really enjoy this, trying to go that way. And, and. And. Wasn't really sure what to do, to be honest, it was pretty lost feeling like I didn't know what was next or where was next moved home for a bit with the opportunity to return to Davidson and Charlotte, I could have done that again, but just didn't feel that was where God was calling me next. Talked with some businesses, had some interviews, did that put in for some coaching jobs, nothing was really coming of it. And The Calvin college at the time now, Calvin university job opened up part-time job, honestly, which you don't see a lot of in college sports. But I just, I got really excited about the prospect of being here at Calvin. It was a faith-based. One that is maybe a little different, but certainly more similar to my experience at Wheaton. It was a chance to kind of run something or at least be responsible for something which I felt like, is something I need maybe or something that I do well is to kind of, to run something. I

Jason 1 12:58

And up until then, up until then you had been like an assistant coach, right. You hadn't ran a program, so that's a big opportunity, obviously, right?

Ryan 1 13:06

Correct. And so I, I had never run my own program. I mean, I'd had local club teams I'd coached like U 13 U 14 club teams, which I think was really good in developing a coaching voice, but I'd never been responsible. And it's funny because I say that now after we've just finished up year 10 heading into year 11. When I was 27 and, none of the responsibility piece came into my mind. I just thought this would be cool. Faith-based school. Yeah, it'll be fun. Yeah. Right. Stay in, stay in soccer and be close to home. And, and the faith. Um, my faith journey is not only okay, but it's supported. It's encouraged. Um, as, as we work with young men,

Jason 1 13:44

yeah. Yeah. Hey, I have a question about, so I've, I've, I'm familiar with Wheaton college as far as I've heard of it, but I don't know, from a theological perspective or even a denominational perspective. Can you talk a little bit about that versus Calvin I'm I'm a west Michigan guy and you know, of course there's a guy named Calvin that a lot of us reformed guys kinda know of a little bit. Explain a little bit about major differences, not major differences between the two schools and from a theology standpoint.

Ryan 1 14:10

Great question. I'm more of a boots on the ground guy than an ivory tower guy In terms of, of thought and, and kind of practice. So I will say this institutionally Whedon would describe itself as a non-denominational evangelical college. It's not owned and operated by any denomination. Whereas the Christian reform church owns and operate. Calvin university as most people in west Michigan are aware a little unique in that you do have to sign a statement of faith to attend the institution. I'm not naive. I'm sure there's people whose signature has been forced or their heart may not have fully been behind it, whereas Calvin's a bit more um, distinctly Christian, but also distinctly. You know, as I'll, I'll fast forward a little bit to come back, but, um, you know, we have non-Christian guys on our team right now. Uh, I, I love that at, at Wheaton. We didn't have that. And I think both have their place, both have their value, but that's been some of the primary institutional differences. I think those things then get fleshed out a little differently as I've been More introduced with reformed view. But theologically, I would say it's not been a, a. an issue for me, it's been a pretty simple transition as someone who grew up in a pretty non-denominational evangelical home how it gets fleshed out has been a little unique I thought, oh, Whedon is west Michigan. They're very similar subpopulations. And there's certainly a lot of similarities, but there there's certainly also some differences, um, that I've, I've kind of encountered over the past decade.

Jason 1 15:36

I'm I'm sure. So that missional focus, I mean that just from someone who's really I mean, you're in a leadership position there as a coach that, that, uh, really changes, I guess, The way that you interact can interact, should interact with Students, as you said, at a Wheaton college, the expectation is that you're living a life of faith. You came here, you signed this covenant, whereas at Calvin, if you don't have to do that and you come in, you say, I know I'm gonna be presented with the gospel and would be presented with scripture, but I'm not signing something saying that I. Um, That I'm a Christian or I'm a believer, but I put myself under that submission. Right. Is, is that, is that, uh, fair to, to say that that's probably a pretty big difference and gives you, a chance to, to be a witness, to some people who really haven't come to faith yet, and you can be very open with that, to them.

Ryan 1 16:24

Yeah, it is. It's interesting. I think probably the biggest difference would just be nuance in how you carry yourself. Because to be honest, I don't think that I'm doing anything differently. At its core at, at Calvin, then I would be at Wheaton or then I would be at Michigan state even. Right. I, I, I may not be able to express that as clearly at a secular institution, but I'm a huge believer that like healthy teams, healthy organizations, growth of people in their roles. Is pretty synonymous, right? I think those things are true in non-Christian settings, as well as in Christian settings. I just think that Christians do the little bit of extra work to see that those are ultimately rooted in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I think we see healthy Christian principles fleshed out in secular workplaces all time. It just may not take it the step further to say, oh, this happens because of this serving people is great. Whether you're a Christian or not. I just think sometimes we do the, the extra work of, of recognizing where it comes from and, and hopefully giving honor to God for that.

Jason 1 17:26

They're all biblical principles and they work because they were given and designed by God, right?

Ryan 1 17:32

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Jason 1 17:34

So tell us a little bit, Ryan about uh, family. What's your situation there? Are you married children?

Ryan 1 17:40

Yeah. So, um, My wife, Casey is from west Michigan. She's a forest hill central alum. She's actually Korean. So she was born in South Korea, but was adopted at three. Her and her twin sister, Carrie. So my wife's name is Casey Casey and Carrie are twins. They're identical twins. They look alike. They couldn't be more different. Love them both. It's kind of funny because I actually went to college with my now sister-in-law and so I I knew Carrie first.

Ryan 2 18:12

When I moved to grand rapids, the only person that I knew in the area was my now sister-in-law Carrie. And she connected me with her sister now my wife, Casey, and Carrie's actually since moved to Colorado Springs. So she and her husband have three boys out there case. And I started dating probably about a year into me living in grand rapids. Got married January of 2016. So just celebrated six years of marriage. We have two daughters Eden, who is four Mariah, who is. And then case is actually expecting, or we are expecting as she is due in November.

Jason 1 18:52

Oh, nice. Congratulations.

Ryan 2 18:53

Thanks. We're uh, I think we're excited for a third. We're not so excited for, uh, everything that might come along with it for the, for the first little bit there as you, as you well know.

Jason 1 19:03

yeah. Yeah. I remember. Yeah, we have, well, we're around like grandkids now. So we have a three year old granddaughter and she stays with us quite often. And, uh, I know why you have children when you're young, cuz you can't keep up with them when you're, older, but it's it's fun trying

Ryan 2 19:16

We got a little bit of a late start, so I didn't get married till 31. So I you know, I don't know about, I missed the whole heaven one you're young thing. So now it's uh, my body's breaking down, but, uh, we, we love them and life's life. Good right now. Life's pretty fun.

Jason 1 19:29

that's awesome. So talk to us Ryan, a little bit about your faith. It sounds like you were brought up in a home of, uh, your, your parents, your mom and dad were believers. So just kinda walk us through uh, your background and your faith and how you came to know the Lord

Ryan 2 19:43

yeah. So I, I Def I grew up in a Christian home I can tell you March 9th. 1990 is at least when you look at non-denominational evangelical homes is what I said, the prayer, right? You grew up in those homes to accept life in, uh, Christ into my life, uh, into my heart. At that time I was five, four and a half, five years old. So I remember that that was a big deal that was celebrated. Um, My parents, my, my mother comes from a long lineage of faith. I'm deeply thankful for that. I'm probably even more. For the fact that, to be honest, my father wasn't really, he didn't really grow up in a Christian home. I think he grew up in a moral home, but I don't, I think faith was a good thing, but it, maybe wasn't a primary thing. And I'm forever indebted to the organization, young life. You know, I think my dad through their club program and, and through their camps in the summer really came to know the Lord and love the Lord. And so now I, I, wouldn't know it any other way myself, but that was a pretty big generational changing decision that I think my father made. And my grandfather was a world war II vet. He was a good man, but I wouldn't say that he was a warm a warm man by any. And so while my father, I think that was probably at his expense a little bit the day I was born, I'm the oldest of three boys you know, my dad kind of was like, well, this, this is gonna die with me. And so I've been very close. You know, he's been extremely relational with all three of his boys and I think his modeled fatherhood and maybe even more originally pursuits of the Lord as a man first and foremost. And so that's been something that's really. I don't, if I'm quite honest, I don't think I know how thankful and how fortunate I am for that model, even into my late thirties. It's something I've taken for granted because of my dad, my parents, for sure. But my dad in particular as a man, his incredible consistency um, over the, the course of my entire.

Jason 1 21:41

That's awesome. What a legacy. it makes me think of this saying I've heard that's the older you get the, smarter your parents get. Right. And it's that. I think we understand and appreciate some of their sacrifices or the wisdom patience that they've they've had. And especially for uh, those of us that are, were grew up around parents that were believers and appreciate, like you said, that consistency and being intentional and disciplined and helping to disciple us and lead us towards the Lord and in our walk with the Lord is kids and teens. And that's not always, not always easy to do that when you're trying to grow in your own faith and then trying to lead your family as well.

Ryan 2 22:20

It's huge. And I think having my own family right as. Come up that I didn't know about before it deepens my respect for my parents I was never really a teenager who thought my parents were idiots. You know, I had great relationship with my parents for the, for the majority, you know, for all of my life, really. But again, to that point, I think, especially I'm in an industry where a moment can really change things, right. I coach so a big goal, a big save, a big whatever, and. In some sense. It's, it's great. But really I look at the longevity, the, the discipline of the day to day, the character that my father modeled, that I hope I'm modeling for my children and our athletes. Yeah. That stuff doesn't get the front page headlines. Right. You don't get rewarded for that. Um, but those are the things that over a long spell are, are really worth replicating it. And ironically, actually, what do the replicating.

Jason 1 23:08

That's right. And Now, like I said, as you're a a younger father to be able to take some of those same lessons And, carry 'em on. That's super, super cool to hear. I pray that. you'll be able to do that as successfully as your own father, when you think Ryan about your leadership. So you're, you're leading these young men every year. The soccer team that you lead and these, these guys, what are your leadership principles or models that you've come to kinda refine over time and that you use As your coach, these guys.

Ryan 2 23:36

have some that are in our program that we're very public about. And then maybe some more personal ones that I try and lead with certainly seasonally, but hopefully daily. And I think our public ones, we talk with our guys. about our overarching vision. That's never gonna change. We, we wanna win games. That's great. And our goals may change and this and that, but our vision's never gonna be change is never gonna change. And so we're very clear on the front end with our guys that we want to be men that exhibit Christ likeness. And pursue excellence in all facets. That's our vision. We want to be like running after the Lord. We're very clear about that. And then we wanna be pursuing excellence in every facet of who we are certainly on the field, but in the classroom, off the field. And so that's our vision for our guys so that they know very clearly what we're. um, then after that, um, you know, we have a, a program saying, or kind of a program burst and it comes from Philippians 1 27. It's not uncommon. Um, contextually Paul is, is kind of introing his letter to the church at Philippi. And he basically is saying, look, whether I leave you or whether I'm with you, I'm gonna encourage you to stand firm in one spirit. And that stand firm there in the Greek is the. S T E K E T. And so stand firm in one spirit or in the one spirit is Paul's exoration to the church at Philippi. And so for our guys, we've kind of embraced that Stata it's on our program crest. Our guys say that, uh, When we close in prayer at the end of trainings and matches, and it's this stand firm in one spirit that our group, we want to be consistent in character, whether we're on the field, off the field, on campus, away from campus summer. Finals week. And so hopefully there's that consistency that we're standing firm in one spirit. We tell guys they always wear the badge, right? That's a big thing in soccer is your badge or your crest or whatever. And so you want to be representing each other. You want to be representing your families and you want to be representing your king well, And so those are kind of our, our overarching, um, vision and, and mantra for our guys and how we're hoping to carry that out. For me in particular, the more that I'm around teams, the more that I've been able to lead people or be led in organizations. I just think leadership comes down to service. We have all these other definitions and all these other taglines, but I just think, what are we willing to do for the man to our left and the man to our right. Are we willing to wash feet? Christ talks all the time. If you wanna be. Be a servant. You wanna be first wash feet it started the cross. And so there's lots of other principles. There's good authors out there. We can talk all day. I love talking leadership. I actually, I just came from a week in Montana Where Calvin sends out two members from every team to do some pretty intensive athletic leadership. We take their phones. You'll think about that. We take 21 and 22 year old's phones away from 'em for six, six and a half days. Um, and the

Jason 1 26:36

That's pretty major

Ryan 2 26:37

it's all, it's awesome. Right. You know, at the beginning that it's like a small tick, you know, they're like that they can make it, but by the end, some kids don't even want their phones back. You know, I think they realize what a distraction that, that they can be in that they in their lives. But the more that we discuss this with them and we present things and we bounce ideas off of them just more than ever. I think it's service it's being willing to serve the group you're leading. And I think that's true, Whether you're, you're single a husband, a father, you're a CEO, you're middle management, or you're a brand new employee. If you're serving people, you, you can lead people. Um, and I, not only can you, I think it's actually the, kind of the core foundational principle or, or necessity in leading.

Jason 1 27:16

You know, Most of the, people I've talked with on these podcasts are in leadership roles where they're leading other professionals some maybe early in their career and some further along in their career. But I'm interested, Ryan, and what are some of the, unique challenges, or, maybe even some of the unique blessings that you get in leading. Young men that are I mean, right. Some of these guys are right coming from high school and have never been away from home. And maybe some of 'em have moved away for the first time, especially when I think about some, of your freshmans and sophomore.

Ryan 2 27:48

So there's always both, it's a virtue and vice you know, and as I'm sure some of your, your other interviewees would say in, in the workplace, one of the really positive things is getting to enter into a really unique space in a young man's life. These are four hugely developmental years um, for young men and, and I think to be able to do it through sport is if I'm honest, probably a bit subversive. Don't hear manipulative, but I think subversive is the word there. I think initially our guys see me as coach I'm their soccer coach. and I think over time maybe their parents realize it a bit more, but hopefully I We are staff in our program are a safe place for young people to come and um, struggle through things and, and fail a little bit. Right. My, the number one thing we have right now is young people. So want to curate how the rest of the world sees them filters on social media. And so I think. Provide a space where like, it's, it's okay to risk and it's okay to fail. You're gonna be okay. And we're gonna support you through that. You're gonna grow through that. I think are some of the most positive things, you know, some of the other positive things and, And we touched on it a little earlier. we've had young men come through here who didn't really know the Lord at all, who just came for soccer or to study engineering cuz of the profile and they leave. And, and I think there are generational changes for their families. That one, some of the coolest ones I've seen have gone both ways. Right. So now they might meet a one in particular. I can think of met a young woman at Calvin here, a young woman of faith with a long legacy of faith. Faith is gonna be in that home Lord willing for generations. In the same tone, it actually went back upstream. This deeply impacted this young man's parents in how they viewed his experience. We become passionate in what our kids are passionate about. We love him. So we've seen go both ways with some of our young people. That's been some of the fun stuff some of the more difficult things to be honest um, kind of honing back into the leadership piece is to be honest, we have kids that don't wanna lead. They have no desire to. be a part of something bigger than themselves, right? They came here for soccer. That's what they're gonna do. Um, they came to get maybe some awards, get their degree and, and move on. and what's particularly unique is one I'm not paying them literally. Right. I I'm not their boss. So I, I don't have something I'm um, at its core holding over them. Right. If they don't do what we say, then I'm gonna fire in. So. I know that that's not good leadership, but it does get your followers to the, job every day. If you're paying them there's I need this for an income. So we don't have that. And maybe the second part of, that is, is we're non scholarship as a division three school. So I, I don't have this well, Hey, if you want a degree you, you, you gotta kind of do what I say again, those are not strong leadership tenants, but I think when you don't have some accountability pieces at play, sometimes it makes it harder. You have young men that live in a very self first world. And so they're like why would I want to make a freshman feel comfortable? I'm worried about me. You know, working with college soccer players.

Jason 1 31:00

A long time ago, I had a pastor who was taking me under his wing This was before we even had children. And so he was discipling me in into leadership and even just teaching roles and that we're talking Sunday school, right. A little kids, but I, one thing he told me that I'll never forget and he's right. He was right. As he said, I think that anyone that is gonna go into leadership in business or anywhere where there is a scholarship, a paycheck, anything like that. He said, I think first they should go into leadership, leading volunteers. He said, because if you can lead volunteers, the same things you're talking about, Ryan, volunteers, you can't fire you can't hold a paycheck. You can't take the scholarship. And as looking back over several decades, now that the Lord has given me the opportunity to lead. Volunteers in many different church ministries I, have learned better and more effective leadership skills because you have to it's about the relationship. It's about serving, as you mentioned earlier, the people that you're leading and making sure that you're putting them first and taking care of them and so that they can be effective in what they're doing. So that's that's good. That's interesting that there's not a scholarship. There's not you know, Any of that, so

Ryan 2 32:10

No, but the positive there is when we get it right. We have young men who really want to be. Same thing with your volunteers, Your drummer in the church band or whatever, he's there. Cuz he loves it. He loves the organization. And so for our guys, I actually have way fewer issues. It might be hard to get some top level leaders out of juniors and seniors in college because of investment. But we don't have as big of an issue with buy-in at least initially, cuz guys want to be there And They love it. And so.

Jason 1 32:41

There's that's the only reason they're there. Yeah. They're there cuz they wanna be

Ryan 2 32:44

And, and we talk about that. Look, you, we're not paying you if you're not having fun. If you're not enjoying this, if you're not growing as a result of it, let go, go get a job, you know, go, go find something else that you're gonna enjoy with your time. For sure.

Jason 1 32:56

So Ryan, let's pivot the conversation a little bit. I'd be curious to learn about what your spiritual disciplines are. How do you continue to grow in holiness and keep your relationship with the Lord close? Yourself just on a, a personal level.

Ryan 2 33:09

It's a, great question. And one that if I'm completely honest with Is a struggle for me for two reasons. One, I. Am not your type, a super organized type of person even in my own disciplines. And so I'm more of a, Hey, there's some piles and I know what's in there, but other people might look and say, that's crazy. And so two things right now, I think that are, that are keeping me growing, keeping me sharp. One is I'm in just a, I mean, not too complicated, but just a daily plan, you know, as it as it happened in the Bible app. Um, and so for me, there's, there's daily reminders. There's a daily opportunity to be in the word. And so I think that's one thing that's really helped. The other thing that's been difficult is I, my work is very inconsistent. Um, you know, I might be on the road for four days in a row, or, you know, Like I said, I just came outta Montana for a week. And so getting consistency and rhythm in my, any kind of life, let alone

Jason 1 34:02

Yeah.

Ryan 2 34:03

can, be difficult at. And so that's where I actually really appreciate that other people have taken the work to put together daily plans, daily apps, where it's like, okay, here's a reminder, let's stay in this. I, I I personally really appreciate a chronological model. At least for reading, it allows me take things in, in the whole versus individual studies. Those aren't bad, but I just, I love reading. I prefer to read scripture straight through as opposed to topically personally. And then the second thing, one of the positive things that really came out of COVID is I'm actually in a Bible study with three other college soccer coaches. And that's been something that's been incredible because there's been accountability we've continued to meet you know, we didn't even know what zoom was, you know, three years ago. And now, now we're on it every week. Um, and, And what's been really helpful with that is there are three guys who live a pretty similar. inconsistency. If that's the case you know who vocationally, there are ups and downs with wins and losses and getting recruits and not getting recruits. All of that kind of thing. And so that's, those have been probably the two primary is just trying to, for someone who's not great at it, just daily, get myself in the work, just being it, not feeling it you know, I can't sit here and, and applaud my father's consistency and talk to you about how important that is and wanting to develop that in our young people and then not strive to do that daily myself. And then to have a group of men. Various backgrounds you know, one is a, maybe a newer believer and, and one, his father is a pastor and grew up in the church. And so that group has been really healthy. One in consistently meeting, but also text encouraging we're keeping up with each other's season so that I think Guys know the right thing to say at the right times, or at least understand contextually. And so those have been the two recently that have been hugely helpful and not. Hey, I hope this is working, but a sense of, wow. There's some pretty immediate feedback in in their efficacy, in my own life. And, and how, how well that's, um, been for the last probably 18 months.

Jason 1 36:11

You know, That makes me think about some, some of the, the men that I'm closest with, um, that are brothers in Christ, but also we share at least some aspects on the careers you know, our careers and what we do for a living. And man, you just, you talking about knowing what to say, knowing what that other person's going through and their career is super powerful. I think that as believers. That men need to be in fellowship and mentoring one to one discipleship. and, I think women need to do the same. And there's a tremendous amount of value in that. Jason Allen and I, and, a podcast. Recently, we talked about that and how important that, is. But I think if you get these opportunity to also add on top of that, to have people that you're talking with and doing Bible studies with that share a similar career that is extra special, I guess I'll say because of how much you can share.

Ryan 2 37:02

It's really unique cuz here's the other, here's the other, thing that's very interesting. In any college there is one head men's soccer. that's it, there's a basketball coach. There's a baseball coach and they're friends of mine. I'm very fortunate to have great rapport. With our coaching staff here at Calvin, they are some of my dearest friends. Our women's soccer coach. She's awesome. my wife is actually an assistant with our women's team. And she's great. But I think it can be a bit lonely, right? Where you're the only one and only one who carries this cycle seasonally. And so for me, it was one of those I got into this study. Someone else prompted, I was fortunate enough to be asked and it was one of those I'm embarrassed to say it's one of those things that I didn't really know how great it would be, or maybe even how badly I needed it. Because there it may I under, I understand that I get right. That's CS Lewis, a measure of a true friend is someone who says, oh, really you two. I thought I was the only one. I think certainly in sanctification, that's true. Right. But I, I also think in day to day to day living like, oh my gosh, you feel that with your ad or your athletes? Like I thought I was crazy. And so that's been incredibly sharpening both vocationally, but then certainly spiritually and personally as well.

Jason 1 38:13

That's good to hear. And now, like you said, the technology now, I think we've all gotten a lot more comfortable with being remote, like you and I are. We're, I don't know. We're probably an hour or two away from each other today and can easily do this do this podcast. Everybody's gotten a lot more comfortable doing, doing stuff remotely. Hey, you think back Ryan think back 10 years ago, when you first started in this role, what are some of the challenges that you faced as a leader in leading these young men that you've either been able to overcome or you've found ways to manage? Maybe you still struggle with some of these things or maybe you've overcome 'em or just be curious about that as a, as a young leader, what were some things that that were, were tough for you?

Ryan 2 38:52

To be honest with you, I wanted to fight every battle. Every single one we'd have guys who they couldn't make practice, cuz they had class. And I remember storming into my ad's office. How are we supposed to win games if we can't even get guys at practice? And now 10 years later I don't know. I think this semester we'll have five guys that Hey, on Tuesday I have lab and I'm like, yeah, that's great. Have a good lab get there when you get there. That's just one example where I mean, I just felt I, every battle, every hill I was gonna die on. Um, and I think that's an area I've grown in with some perspective, some personal growth And, some time like it's just, I'm gonna be honest. And I'm a division three college soccer coach. N nobody cares. And I don't mean that in a fishing sense, but we're not on ESPN. I'm not getting a contract renewal based on whether we make the bowl game or what, right. Like I just, it's just not the reality of it. You know, your last guest, Tim, Hiller's a, a big friend of mine and I love Tim's great perspective. But when Tim's the quarterback at Western Michigan, tho Those games mean dollars for the institution, right? There's a lot more writing. on that program, success institutionally, then arts. And so I think some of that perspective has helped me. What actually is my job, not what do I think it is? What do I wish it was in some moments? And so I think a lot of my leadership development Has happened or is happening because hopefully I'm growing personally, I'm maturing. But number two, I'm gaining perspective we're trying to produce better citizens, better husbands, better fathers. Men who love the Lord and want to pursue him. And I think that, look, don't get me wrong. You asked my wife, we still get plenty stressed in season and we want to succeed and we wanna win. But I think it's a little different feeling like everything can throw you off, off your path. Cause the reality is one. It probably shouldn't. And two, if every little thing can knock you off, course, it, it probably should make you reconsider either the course you're on or the speed at which you're taking your course.

Jason 1 40:57

I'm gonna say that's probably uh, pretty common for, for younger leaders and I don't, and nobody else has mentioned that on these podcasts, but you know, as you're, as you were talking, I was thinking back to you know, earlier in my careers, I moved into some leadership positions and I just got super, super stressed over some things that now not so much you know, and it's just, it takes time and perspective. I, know for me it takes a wife helping you say you know, I I don't think it's all that it'll be okay. So praise the, Lord for, for them too.

Ryan 2 41:29

Amen man, that that's for sure.

Jason 1 41:31

Hey, Ryan, when you look around at leadership in general, you said you're a student of leadership. You'll love to learn and sharpen yourself and study it. And and I do as well. I think we can you know, as long as the, the Lord keeps us here on earth, we can, that's an area we'll just continue to try to grow in and develop. But As you look around at leadership, whether it be there at the university or in the world in general what do you think are some of the biggest gaps that just aren't there that are just causing people to be ineffective or at least less effective in their leadership roles?

Ryan 2 42:02

Yeah number one, I would say it is that people are not leading from among. I think there's lots of bosses out there. I don't know how many, how many leaders there are out there. and, And some of that may be from their own experience. You know, I see it in coaching. There's this? Hey, I grinded for so long coaching, especially at higher levels, division one levels is really a war of attrition. And what ends up happening is it's kind of this cycle where you're maybe not treated great. You're not making that much money. And then you get your opportunity. And what do you do? You treat those people the same. And so I think the biggest gap is that leaders are not, I said it earlier leading from among they're out front and they might be dragging you. you know, The second thing I would say is maybe leaders not, not leading from behind, right. that they're not Hey, helping push and encourage. But I think if we're, if we're amongst the people that we're working with, you know, I, I want relationship with our guys. One of my biggest goals as a coach is that I'm invited to alum weddings.

Jason 1 43:02

Yeah that's

Ryan 2 43:04

that means, right. You're only gonna invite the people that you're closest to, to your wedding. And so if years after guys leave, they see me as a peer. Now, granted I have responsibilities. I'm not their best friends. I, I need, I, I have some re like I said, some responsibility, but I want to be amongst our guys. I I want to be talking with them about things that are going on in their lives, things that Or going on the world that 18 to 22 year olds are. So in one sense I'm hopefully continually maturing, but in another sense, for me to be effective, I still need to, at least in some small part, be 18 to 22. I need to find ways to relate to our guys. Sometimes it's in music, sometimes it's in Various sport things guys are involved in sneakers right now is a big one. Right? So, There, there have to be authentic ways in which I can engage our guys where they're at, cuz otherwise if I'm just. Telling them what to do from behind. Or if I'm just saying, Hey, come follow me. This. the it's not really a particularly compelling vision for guys to wanna be a part of. And I think probably that would be the number one thing I see back to your question is there's just not, it's Hey, it's my turn to lead. I'm the leader. You do what I say?

Jason 1 44:13

Yeah, I, it reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from one of my favorite leadership authors, John Maxwell. Who's a, he's a believer and he's written, he used to be a pastor early in his career. And then he became a leadership author and, consultant, but he wrote this quote that says, people don't care how much you know, till they know how much you care. And that's all that getting in there and developing those relationships and connecting with the people that are they're on your same team, we're on the same team. Right. And you're just to, to try to make those connections and build those relationships and build trust. Cuz if you don't do that nothing's gonna happen. You're just, you're not gonna be able to effectively lead any team where there's not some level of trust.

Ryan 2 44:52

Yeah, so it's, I don't know whose quote this is. I'm so I'm not plagiarizing, I'm doing it from someone. I just don't know who, but the same, thought of. Care significantly less about being in charge and way more about those in your charge. Same kind of idea, right? That's like, Hey, let's, let's, let's work together. Let's head somewhere. We want to do this. The best leaders, Christian leaders. secular leaders. We talked earlier about it being based in Christian principles are ones that are invested in the people they're doing life with. They're eating you know, they're breaking bread with those that they're leading. Those people are gonna be way more willing to be a part of your, what you're doing as a leader than if you were.

Jason 1 45:30

So you have a pretty uh, cool opportunity Ryan to you're working in a Christian environment, as you mentioned earlier. I would assume it's not only not only are you called as a believer to disciple, I'm sure you have that desire, but probably even the organization expects you to do that to some degree, but can you tell us a little bit about how do you honor Christ in your, work as a coach? Like whether it. You know, When you're coaching and developing young men who are believers and young men who are not like, what are the, things that you do? You know, What are the, principles that you try to employ to honor the Lord As a coach,

Ryan 2 46:07

so Jason I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm a big vocation as mission believer. you know, If I want a chance to mentor guys or speak to them about Christ's work and my life and their life, or maybe how to date a young woman or what marriage looks like, all those kind of. Um, Which have long lasting value. If I want our guys to listen to me in those categories, I have to be a really good soccer coach. That is what I'm paid for. That is the job that I have. That is how they know me. So if I'm not a good soccer coach, they, why should they listen to me about anything else? And It seems really simple, but part of how I think I'm striving to honor Christ in my work is to be a really good soccer coach that we provide great scouting reports for our guys, that our sessions are well planned, that we do recruit well that we're invested in our day to day work, because that is the arena with which these young men see me.

Jason 1 47:03

Yeah.

Ryan 2 47:04

and maybe only then, or after that point, am I gonna have a space to talk about growth and godliness or leadership for themselves, or have a space that they will invite me into to really lead in the areas that I'm most deeply passionate about and that the institution would love to see me do But I, I, again if I'm crappy as a coach, you don't, you're not even good at what your job is. Why would I listen to you about the things that aren't your.

Jason 1 47:31

I think that's so important, Ryan. I, unfortunately, over again I've, I've been in the, in the work world for 30 years now, and I've worked with a lot of solid believers who did their work really well, And a lot of solid believers who were they did it good. And I, but there's been some that I see that just was either the attitude or work ethic was so poor. And I just, I wanted to just say please, don't tell people that you're a follower of Christ because you're just the damage that you're doing in your work ethic. And the way that you do your, job is is, and again, that's the minority for sure, over the decades, but you're right. Without that foundation, we don't even have a really, we don't really even have the right. You certainly haven't gained the respect or earned the respect to those people to have those conversations

Ryan 2 48:21

And that that's not to say I don't have moments right. In any of those where I'm frustrated, but we all do. But if every day I come in grouchy. And I don't enjoy the work that I'm doing. Man, my spirit, the, one that we talk about, right the holy spirit and dwell is that's not getting fleshed out in my work. Why would they listen about it being fleshed out in my personal life? So yeah we're not, we're not perfect at it, but that is a huge passion of mine you know, in the same way. I think this is a little bit unique in that. I think I grew. Maybe a little bit more conservative, Orthodox, where worship was going to church or singing praise songs. That was kind of it. And where my Theo, my theology has grown a little bit. Is that we can do that in sport. And I think God has given us great gifts and talent and abilities to do that, whether it's in the workplace, as a leader um, in manufacturing, like you talked about in athletics, in coaching and relationship. And so in some ways, hopefully some of The glory we're bringing to Christ is I don't wanna say undoing my thoughts on worship, but adding to them.

Jason 1 49:25

Adding that's

Ryan 2 49:26

Yeah. And I think I'm able to maybe do that for some young men who have that same thought like, oh, sport is worship. You gotta be kidding me. It's like, well, no, I know. I understand. I came from maybe a similar type of understanding in background. Now let's talk through that. Well, For me to have that, I have to see coaching is worship. And if, our athletes see that they're more engaged, I think to say oh, tell me about that. Or I didn't sport was kind of actually my outlet as opposed to like a, a, a direct course for, for worship, which I think is pretty cool. A pretty cool.

Jason 1 49:59

you know, I think that when uh, as believers, we're doing things that honor the Lord and he, wherever he's put us, whether that's interacting with the public in a, store doing our work right in our homes with our families, that as we honor the Lord, and we purposely are striving to honor him not to earn salvation, but to honor him as believers that's worship, And uh, you know, it's that's yeah. I, I agree over the years. My, my definition of that has certainly broadened quite a bit for sure.

Ryan 2 50:28

and it, And it's interesting, right? So something. At least the way I was understood it it I'm, I'm not a biblical scholar. I don't have my master's in divinity, but someone who once pointed out for me when, when Jesus talks about take my yo right, because my yo is easy and my burden is light. Um, When they actually talked about it, breaking it down, they actually talked about an ox oxygen yolk. And they said, look it, it doesn't mean um, it means easy in the sense of fits well. Right. If you think about an oxen plowing the field, if that yolk doesn't fit well on their shoulders, it makes that work. Significantly more difficult, but if that ox oxygen has a yolk that fits its shoulders well, in some ways was made for it, that work becomes significantly easier. And I think for me, so often we think of work as like it's gotta be miserable or horrible or whatever. Right. Um, and, and I think, I think what we is. Difficulty in work toil and labor in work is a result of the fall, not work itself. And so I think what's hu like I'm a believer we're going to have work in the next life. I think we see that model then Adam naming the animal. So I think work is not only not a bad thing. I think it's a very good thing. But I think the more that we can get our work yolk to fit right. the, The more we will enjoy it, the more that we will bring honor to the Lord, because we won't be fighting our own selves. And so I think we have a massive problem in our culture with our perception of work, work is supposed to stress you out. It's supposed to anger you it's supposed to tear you out. You're not supposed to like it.

Jason 1 52:08

Yep. Gotta retire as early as possible, right?

Ryan 2 52:11

Yes. And, and sure there's stressed in everyone's work, right? Because to our conversation earlier, there is a paycheck part to it. It's not just a hobby By the nature of it, work can have stress, but man, my hope is that it fits well. It fits my gifts and passions. It fits with other areas that I think the Lord has called me and allows me to flesh some of those things out naturally. If I'm excited about my work, if I'm enjoying it, I do think that's honoring Christ. And I think other people in my chart see that and think, man, maybe he, he was made to do that. And I'm not theologically getting in to say that God has made me to be a college soccer coach. I, I think there's other things I could do, but I think that if, if I'm doing this the way God has intended, man, I'm gonna really enjoy that. And I think we do I think it's something that we really enjoy And hopefully there's honor.

Jason 1 53:03

I love the way you put that. And this that's a lot of what we talk about on these podcasts is how do we honor. the Lord in this work? Work is good. Work is a gift from God. We grow from it. We're sanctified through it. Obviously we can provide for our families as well. But there's much more to it than that. So as you think about again, you said you're a student of leadership and uh, like to grow as a leader, who are your favorite authors? What books have you read that you'd recommend to other maybe podcasts that you listen to, that he, that help you grow as a leader.

Ryan 2 53:33

Yeah, So growing up, I, actually, Andy Stanley was one of the guys that I, I read growing up I think of visioneering and talking about Nia Maya and his leadership to rebuild the wall um, you know, he's a guy that I think I, I went. Back to several times and hearing his now podcast or sermons or whatever he's, he's a, a big leadership guy. In probably the secular space. I love John Gordon's podcasts. He's a sport guy his books to be honest with, with you are. I don't think I don't may. I hope John hears this. That means your audience is really growing, but I think his books can be a little cheesy to be honest with you, but I love his podcast and he's, he's really good at longform interview and he lets these, um, you know, athletes, coaches, people Not in sport at all. Really just talk about leadership. and I think he curates great questions. John's a guy who's also a believer and he'll be clear about that, but I think he would say he's not in a faith only space. And so to watch him interact and see his faith come through the way in which he does his work is really pretty cool. Um,

Jason 1 54:34

Okay. We'll link to these two on the, podcast notes. Uh, So people can can check those out.

Ryan 2 54:39

that that'd be great. So James Kerr wrote a book called legacy and it is based on leadership principles using the New Zealand, all blacks, so rugby team. To be honest for me, so many of the leadership books are about the corporate space and they're great. This one for me was it was kind of the opposite or what can sport teach us? About things that maybe we can adjust in the workplace. And so I thought it was really Well, done with some very specific uh, examples for someone who's, who's a college coach, but at the same time, I think is really has benefit for people in the workplace and education in other fields. And then more recently probably maybe he's in his 15 minutes of fame guy, but I really like Simon Sinek stuff. He talks about, start with why people don't care what you sell. They care why you sell it. And I don't know if Simon's a Christian, but this comes back to our earlier point. Man, there's some great principles in there of his work and why you do things and what you're after and leaders eating last that's some of his thought in terms of serving people. And so, um, those are the people that kind of I would say I grew up with have helped transition me and, and some of the stuff that I would say I'm into right.

Jason 1 55:54

Great. Very good. Yeah. I have a lot big Simon Sinek fan. He is super insightful. The guy just has a brilliant mind at taking something that's probably very complex and hard to understand. And boy laying it down to a very understandable point.

Ryan 2 56:07

But it's interesting you know, as we were just talking about his thing, I was just listen, listening to a podcast, um, last weekend and, and he said, um, to be honest with you, it's pretty embarrassing that I have a job. right. He goes I'm going around talking about how to treat your employees with respect and how to better enjoy work. He goes, if I'm doing my job I should be working myself out of a job. Right. And so I, I appreciate that perspective. and hopefully as believers, we are putting people like Simon Sinek out of work, that would be a as much. I love the guy. that would be a really nice.

Jason 1 56:41

yeah, that's a good point. It is a really good point. Hey, if you think about someone who's a just beginning their leadership journey maybe someone like yourself 10 years ago and you were sitting down having a cup of coffee with 'em, what would be some advice you would give them? And some of what we probably already talked about, but what would you tell 'em to look out for, make sure they do or don't do. And what would your input be?

Ryan 2 57:04

Yeah. So I guess say it tongue in cheek from earlier, you don't have to fight every battle. And I say that as someone who probably did, or certainly fought too many of them the second thing I would say, and this is really more for a coaching specific. I would tell him, you gotta commit you're, in my case, you're a Calvin Knight now all of my Wheaton college apparel and all of my Davidson gear and all of my, those were great and helped shape me to get here. But I don't, I'm not a part of her. I'm not affiliated with those organizations anymore. Don't be looking over your shoulder. Oh well, there we did this or that, you know, Hey, commit to what you're doing right now. And I think similarly, And this goes with the leading, from a money don't look. You know, I think a lot of people in coaching are like, oh, this job opened, or what, how do you get there? Or what, Hey, you're here right now invest so heavily in the group that you have. This is where God has you for this moment. Maybe someday in the future, he'll take you somewhere else. But maybe not. And so don't get ahead of yourself. Just commit to what you're doing. And then probably the final thing I'd say for any leader is just listen and ask question. you know, I think especially as it works, as it has worked here with me in coaching and might work for other fields, those that you are leading ask 'em what went well with their previous leader. What are things that should continue to be replicated? Also what are things that should be, changed? And my guess is you're gonna start to see some common principles in both. Hey, we really gotta keep this. These are things that we did as a unit or as a group that worked really well. And Hey, eight of our 10 people said this, or, oh yeah, we should probably replicate that. Whereas inversely seven of 10, we really gotta get rid of this, or we need to look at how we address that. And I think if you ask questions and you listen, you're gonna learn a lot about those that you're leading, leading with or responsible for leading. And you're gonna put yourself in a really good spot to help yourself as a. But then more importantly, help the group that you're responsible for leading succeed. You know, I've seen too many leaders come in and say, oh, ho listen up. It's my turn, man. I'm gonna tell you how it's done. This is how, because there's nothing new under the sun. I'm telling you if there's one thing Solomon got right, is that there is nothing new under when it was done and to listen and to learn. You're probably gonna get some pretty early keys on how to get some early leadership wins by listening to those that you're entrusted with.

Jason 1 59:35

Yeah. There's a, a, a saying, uh, somebody, uh, told me a long time ago is a pretty wise leader. And he said, anytime you go into a new leadership situation you, you know, you're responsible for a new team. He said, you should listen. learn and then lead in that order. Spend some time doing exactly what you're talking about, Ryan and going in and asking questions, getting to know the team, getting to know the situation. And before you start really leading, take the time to, to get to know the team and where they've been and you'll learn a lot for sure. Those, that's a really great analogy of just kinda triangulating that anecdotal data, if you will, from the team and you'll know what's what's not working and what could work and be beneficial and you'd probably be a lot more effective, a lot quicker that way.

Ryan 2 1:00:21

And and it's, it's interesting in artist fear. If we're talking about. Like Leading as a head coach, you're coming in for one of two reasons. It either went really well before you got there. And that person earned a new opportunity to move on, or it went really badly. Right. And, And they chose to you know, they, the institution might have chosen them to leave. So you're coming into a pretty supercharged environment with a lot of opinions. And you know, athletes or those in maybe other cases are gonna have opinions about you and about how things should be done before you sit down. And one of the things we talk with our guys about is ask questions, don't make statements, right? Statements can literally put people on edge, whereas questions tend to disarm people, right? Oh you're, you're curious, you're curious about what I. okay. Oh, you can watch stress, leave people as they're like, okay. This guy cares, cares about what I think they want my opinion for this. You're already gonna do yourself a favor because those people are gonna want to work. Certainly at least work with you and hopefully work for you as well.

Jason 1 1:01:28

Yeah. Yeah. Good. So last question here for you, Ryan you've you're uh, I think you have probably many, many years of, uh, leadership and coaching hopefully ahead of you, but when you're move on, whether it be from this role or you're done with this type of work, what do you hope people will remember about you? And we'll say about you as a leader.

Ryan 2 1:01:48

It's interesting cuz I, I think this question what's kind of great about the way that you do these podcasts. I think this just becomes maybe a specific, answer to things we've already talked about. I am the product of legacy of, of my father and, and mother, and I hope as a, as a man, as a father, as a husband that gets passed down to my children and Lord willing grandchildren, I think that's first and.

Jason 1 1:02:09

Yeah.

Ryan 2 1:02:10

One of my biggest fears is that I'm not invested in, in my own children's lives because I was busy investing in other people's children's lives. And so I think that's a continual call to me is that's my first calling in leadership is in our own house. And so I would hope to be known as a God honoring man husband, father and certainly employee. And then I would say with regard to work I would hope. we would've changed some trajectories of family lines. Cuz we've seen the powerful impact in my own life and already, and some of the young men that we've worked with we want to grow men and produce a generation of God honoring men in their home and in their respective workplaces. And so what I get excited about and where I feel, not that we've nailed it, but in many ways my own hope for myself and how I'm viewed as a man at the end of my time. Is fittingly what we are pursuing for those that we are trying to lead in the space here at Calvin university, right? What do we want from our men? We want them to be God honoring men in their marriages, in their fatherhood and in their workplaces. Naturally then Ryan, what would you hope of yourself? Hey, the same would be set of me. And I think those can provide kind of a checks and balances system is the way that my life is leading. Conducive to being an example to the young men that I'm leading. And then similarly is the output of what our men are producing. Who they're becoming does that also, is that also reflected in my life? Am I seeing the same thing? And so it's a bit cyclical in that way. At least hopefully if it's working.

Jason 1 1:03:46

Yeah, right. That's right. Yep.

Ryan 2 1:03:48

Way that we'd like it to, but I think man if, if that could be said at the end that I think we I'm hoping we, we would feel uh, a well done. Good and faithful servant, certainly from our king, but as well from my wife, my daughters um, you know, my athletic director and, and the people that have, have been fortunate enough, Lord, willing to, to play for me over this.

Jason 1 1:04:09

Well, I think that's really uh, that's very why it's how you put that and the fact that your family has to come first and that has to be put back in front of guys. I think oftentimes, and I'm certainly one of those that have at times off and on become overly focused on career And career success and you cannot. You cannot forget about the importance And the number one priority of leading your wife and leading your family. And eventually, even like you? said, your grandchildren, as I mentioned earlier, we have a granddaughter now. our first one. And We're have the privilege now of teaching her the things you can teach a three year old about the Lord and faith and it's super exciting, I guess, and I, you know, I just praise God, literally not as a cliche, praise God for what I hear about your dad and his legacy that he's left. and I know that uh, I'm sure he's, he's super proud to see you doing the same thing, and now he gets a chance to be a part of that with with his granddaughter. I've I really appreciate your time. Ryan, it's been a really a joy to get to know you. This is the first time we've met. Some of my episodes are with guys who I've known over the years and today was A first for us to get to know each other. I I'm, it's been a super cool to hear your story and to hear what God's doing through you uh, And in you right now, anything in closing that you'd like to share before we wrap things up.

Ryan 2 1:05:31

Just gratitude. I really appreciate this. I, think sometimes I get in my own bubble And I only interact with coaches and athletes and. This has been super encouraging for me that work matters. You know, I think sometimes we think it doesn't matter. And so to be surrounded by people who are willing to take their time to discuss this and are passionate about it. I think hopefully came through, I get fired up about this stuff. And So I really appreciate it. I will say to your listeners as we've just met Jason I do have to just say when you told me you had a grandkid, I just about got floored. So I know this is just gonna be audio. I'm looking at the, at the screen here. So at some point, I'm sure I genuinely believe we'll get together again, but I find it almost impossible to believe that Jason has a grandkid for those out there listening.

Jason 1 1:06:14

We started my wife and I dated in high school and were married right after and started a family early. And Yeah. So you start doing some math and it's possible even for a young guy like me. I won't tell you about how old I am, but it's possible. Hey Ryan, one other thing. How, how could people get in touch with you if they're interested? Uh, you got, uh, is it LinkedIn profile or anything on social media or email or how would you prefer? And I can again, I can put that in the show notes for people to reach

Ryan 2 1:06:38

Yeah, great. Um, app Ryan SOS for everything. So LinkedIn, Instagram. Twitter Calvin knights.com is our team's webpage I've got a bio there. If people want to come to a game, or I don't know if people want to talk leadership Or sport, faith, leadership, man, reach out. I love this stuff. Maybe I need to start my own podcast, but I love these conversations. They,

Jason 1 1:06:59

Maybe

Ryan 2 1:06:59

really gimme life. So please reach out and I'd love to.

Jason 1 1:07:03

good. Okay. We'll put those in the show notes, various ways to connect as well as some of the The leadership authors that you mentioned too. So again, a thank you Ryan, for your time today, it was a privilege and a joy to, to meet you and hear about what God's doing in you and through you for his glory. All right. Thanks, man.

Ryan 2 1:07:21

Jason. Appreciate it.

Jason 1:07:22

Thank you for joining us for this month's podcast. I have included the resources that Ryan mentioned in the show notes, as well as how to contact him. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast. To ensure you are notified each month when the new episode. Has released. Until then i pray that god uses you to impact the world around you for his glory